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Post #41No one is suggesting it will be finished in "a few months" - that is idiotic. From alpha to release is a *long time*
The idea of coming back "in a few months" is that there will have been more visible, interesting changes in that time, rather than expecting to be blown away by progress with every new patch.
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I am not trolling. I firmly believe many of you are just not thinking coherently.
I understand that hiring someone "bad" can be "bad". That argument is "bad", how about you don't hire someone "bad". It is also "bad" to not hire anybody. Very bad logic guys...
Why does anybody get hired anywhere? Demand. There is a higher demand for output. This is very basic logic people. I am simply stating that the demand has went up.
5 people to work on a game for 500 people is fine. 5 people to work on a game for a million people is not. Why? Because the funding went up, this isn't rocket science.
I tell you this. If Garry responded and said, "numb is right, I am hiring 500 people". You little fan boys would tuck tail and eat it up. You don't have your own opinion, you are the mass, you are the mob, and you are sheep.
The critical, honest, and logical thinker puts 2 + 2 together. When a guy gets millions of dollars on a game that is in production and a million people are playing it... YOU USE THE MONEY ON THE GAME. I am not saying he isn't. I am not saying he won't. I am asking the question: Why not hire more people to work on the game?
All of your answers are on the level of a 5 yr old. If this is not as good as it gets for you guys showcasing your thinking skills, I fear for your future.
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Doesn't really matter at what level you believe you critical thinking to be, ad hominem attacks will always overwhelm the assertion.
TLDR; name calling makes you sound like a little kid.
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I actually agree with most of what you say. I don't think you are understanding what I am saying. I didn't purchase an "alpha game" and am now angry at the "alpha state" of the game. I think that since the "alpha game" is now a best seller, the "alpha game" should increase in the rate of production. Isn't that the entire reason for releasing the "alpha game" earlier? So that production would increase and be more fruitful? To allow the community to assist in production?
Well, the community has assisted in production by giving Garry millions of dollars. Those dollars should be used in part for his pleasure and enjoyment. They should also go into production of the game for those assisting in the development.
The argument that we should be content with the "alpha game" as it is, goes against the very reason it was released to the community in the first place! How ignorant! On the contrary, the millions that he now has should serve as ammunition for production. When it is not being shown to be the case, I simply ask, why not?
Edited:
So basically, I point out how idiotic the thinking is of others, and you pointout how idiotic my thinking process of interpreting the thinking process of others is. You basically have nothing to add, but to try to deconstruct my argument.
I have stated why others arguments are invalid. Your reply is equivalent to worthless. You are a troll.
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Are you psychic? Can you really tell how well someone is going to do by reading their resume and having them perform some menial task to demonstrate ability? You can't very well test them on the work you're doing because they're not familiar with it. You want they should go through the process of hiring half a dozen bozos with great, worthless resumes and degrees, wasting time and money training them before they find a guy with a clue?
Devs are less than a dime a dozen. Good devs are virtually impossible to find.
How much money do you think they made, anyway? $15-$20 million isn't squat.
No, we'd tell Garry to get off the crack pipe and refrain from development or executive decisions until he was clean.
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Oh my god lol you are so into yourself
Please seek professional help and grow the fuck up before continuing any furthing. You aren't even here for the sake of arguing, you're here to argue for the sake of your own ego.
I legitimately fear for your future, the way you act you're going to piss someone off and it's not going to be a good day.
I love how you only reply to certain posts, totally ignoring everyone elses too. Great job.
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You have not actually rebutted anybodies counter argument, in fact a number of posters have give solid counters that you summarily dismiss. And the point of my last post was perfectly illustrated by your response.
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Did someone just say that 15-20 million dollars is nothing?
It is a very good thing typing doesn't have the same requirements as speech. Because Garry would have to take his penis out of your mouths for a couple of seconds to contribute your thoughts.
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first i also thought that its a scam-game, but they did so much already, i really believe now, they want to make an awesome game, even if it takes them 2-3 years.
they fixed duping
they fixed noclip
they handled the permanent ddos attacks around xmas.
that alone shows me, that there are still people working on this game.
and even if NOT and they are sammiong us.it's still the best 17€ investment in along time.
~600 hours fun and still going..
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I am referencing you now, so you can pat yourself on the back.
How exactly am I here for my ego, when I am making the case for Garry to hire people that are not me, so that all of us can benefit?
I would argue that the mass of fan boys are attacking me for making what I feel is a very valid argument that the production of the game should increase since the developer is now a millionaire. You can argue against that, if you want to show yourself stupid, go right ahead.
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I'm so confused, I agreed with the OP and he responded to my response to another post, as if I was responding to him. I still agree with OP for the most part, but concede he might be crazy.
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I agree with you. What does that have to do with doing more? They fixed some things, hooray.
Fixing errors and providing larger updates is two different things. It seems some of you can't think past the basic, I am probably done discussing this subject. It has been pretty fruitless. Most of you cannot get off the bandwagon long enough to see there is a flat tire.
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Hah.
In a sense, it should speed up development and not. As a software developer myself I can safely say that weekly or at least every other week update is a very fast development speed. It isn't a weekend website project, and it is not a SMALL one.
I have but a vague clue at hand what methodologies and process are in play while developing this game but it would be something like: develop (coding, animation, art style, sound) then quality assurance, inside bugfixes after quality assurance phase, 40% of time coding tests to bullet proof code in the future development (Oh I hope Garry your team is Test Driven fiends :P )...
It is a real clusterf!@# honestly and it gets even worse when everyone is throwing idea "please add this or that" and then there is critical cheating/hacking problems etc.
In terms of game, try realizing how much effort is going into decision making alone when it comes to new content or new mechanics - best example would be a complex board game rule-set. Try making a rule-set for a game like RUST with no flaws and constantly try adding new things while balancing everything out - sure being in a team of 10 might make things faster but not instantaneous and a bad decision may lead to catastrophic game breaking (or worse crappy code which is even worse) which would end up as hundred rant posts on this very same forum (considering how many decisions are already being thrown at developers of this game).
Honestly lookup how much money did newest GTA game consumed to become what it is and how many years it took to craft that beast.
So with all love in the world - I hope you can at least SUPER remotely imagine how much of a shit filled wagon Face Punch studios are pulling here... because I barely do :) - Face Punch actually could lay some of their daily work, I would be interested...
Anyway this is my honest to god opinion.
P.S. This post is not in defense of Face Punch studios :D - YEA WORK WORK...
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Yep, I did.
We've done somewhere in the range of like $10-$20 million worth of work for clients here over the last few years. I am not rich, my boss is not rich, the owner is not rich. Our staff is no bigger than the staff at FP.
There are such things as "overhead" and "operating expenses" in the business world.
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"This shouldn't be looked at as just some game you bought that happens to not be done yet, that's not how Early Access works."
I can't gauge the tone of typing. I am sorry. I said I agreed with you and it was obvious we weren't far apart. I just have a hard time understanding via "font" the tone of of the way things are said. Since I am being flamed, attacked, and overall put down from every direction I would assume you can understand the defensive nature of my reply?
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"You don't have your own opinion, you are the mass, you are the mob, and you are sheep. I am a logical, critical thinker and everyone that isn't me is stupid. if you disagree with me, you're just a rod riding douche fanboy, because I'm right. you don't understand social interaction. I firmly believe many of you are just not thinking coherently. Don't confuse being correct with arrogant, I'm just better than you all"
-nuMbx
Most of that is literally a copy and paste of sentences from shit you say.
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Who is we? You say "we've" as if you are the basis for understanding the value of money now. Who exactly is the "we've" if it is 5 people or less, you may be right in your own eyes.
I would be willing to bet that there is a lot of small time designers and tech's that would be hired on for a year for 100k. You could get 10 of those and have only spend 1/15th of the money they have brought in. What is the problem exactly?
Edited:
No. Most of that is literally the way you seeing what I write. Because when someone disagrees with you or shows how you are incorrect, you flip out and demonize them. Pots calling kettles black pal.
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I'm not shitting you I literally just copied and paste that from this thread and the last.
You said like, 95% of that.
The real elephant here is you.
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i got your point to use the earned money and invest it into more power.
maybe they are doing that, we cant know. rentin new offices/people etc..
but i think its fine at the moment nearly every week some update/fixes.
only thing i agree with you is, that in the near future there MUST be a bigger Update.
like getting rid of all the placeholders, new map etc..
but they have some time, be a bit patient
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I'm sure you're enjoying games like (Ex) WarZ, Nether and Day One: Garry's Incident.
But feel free to flame about a well made game.
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So you can't do math?
Edited:
What?
I want to reply, but I feel as if you didn't read anything in these posts. I like the game? The discussion is that I feel they should use the money made to increase production. Everyone else feels they are perfect as it is and that to imply any fault or difference from what Lord Garry states, is simply false and heretical.
Edited:
34 out of the 74 words are not mine. If that is 95% to you, you only prove your stupidity and nobody should ever read anything you say every again with seriousness.
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literally no one said that, can you read?
we simply disagree with you that hiring more people is 100% needed or is 100% beneficial.
Also I've said before I think Rust is shit in it's current state and yet I think if they kept current pace they would be fine.
http://pastebin.com/Yy10HXhh
this fucking guy
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So we agree, but we disagree with how fast the production should be. This isn't and shouldnt' be as big an argument as it is people. I am simply saying I think since Garry made tons of cash and there are tons of people playing, there should be more frequent and fruitful updates. That is common sense.i got your point to use the earned money and invest it into more power.
maybe they are doing that, we cant know. rentin new offices/people etc..
but i think its fine at the moment nearly every week some update/fixes.
only thing i agree with you is, that in the near future there MUST be a bigger Update.
like getting rid of all the placeholders, new map etc..
but they have some time, be a bit patient
Edited:
Is that your way of saying, "You got me, I put words in your mouth. So what I will do, is link some random post history and information, that nobody is going to pilfer through, in hopes that nobody notices I just completely lied and misrepresented you." ?literally no one said that, can you read?
we simply disagree with you that hiring more people is 100% needed or is 100% beneficial.
Also I've said before I think Rust is shit in it's current state and yet I think if they kept current pace they would be fine.
http://pastebin.com/Yy10HXhh
this fucking guy
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Common ignorance at most - it is like saying if I pay 300 billion dollars then the next part of lord of the rings will be shot in a day. You couldn't miss point harder if you pointed your gun 180 degree away from the target while being in another country all together....
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No, working with the guys you worked before can be a good thing in comparision.
You think too basic:
5 people to work on a game for a million is fine, too. That's also around the team size of Mojang (in the past) IIRC. Did you ever work in software development? If not please stop.
As others already said: With all that people playing Rust Garry was shocked. Right now facepuch is most likely dealing with that (anti-cheat, server issues, ...) so the money they get is the money they need cause they got it.
Then please stop telling that the result is 5.
Because it's not practical in any way. The team does a good job right now, why interrupt it (and as such interrupt anti-cheat, server issues, new content, ...). Also who says the money doesn't go to the devs? Maybe some 8hrs/week guy works 8hrs/day now? Also maybe they are licensing 3rd party software (cheatpunch came a bit too fast, did they really write it 100% from scratch?), rent more official servers to deal with the masses of players, do marketing, ...
LOL
//EDIT:
What about a large bug fix update? And fixing bugs can be way more work than adding new things. All the debugging, profiling, QA, ...
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NuMbx,
You have clearly never worked in the software development realm or business world, so let me explain a few things to you.
1) Past about 8 each developer added to a medium sized software development project adds a diminishing returns amount of increase of the timeline. This is to say if we take a small team and add 100 new people its likely that only 60% of the value of those 100 will be added and that is assuming all 100 are on par with the original team members, which is rarely the case. Which leads to...
2) The first 2 months of time for a new developer usually is only worth about 50% of their value. Because it takes time for them to get up to date with the project and the way the development team functions. This is often increased in cases of short term mass expansion due to new policies nad procedures needing to be constructed.
3) Running a business is expensive, the rent, equipment, software, and licenses for start ups (which FP is) is a giant initial investment usually totally a few million.
4) Excessive spending after first profits is one of the biggest downfalls in business including in the software industry. Building a sound business budget is paramount to having a successful business.
5) They have a timeline for development, trying to trow money at t to make it shorter is the best way to cause the business to fail and the game to be done more sloppily.
Hope you learned something and consider that you might not know everything and that just because we disagree doesn't me we are no nothing sheep.
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There needs to be a "Full Retard" post tag, as the "Dumb" tag just doesn't seem to express my feelings to their full extent.
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I am surprised people are still responding to him in a serious manner. The guy gives off the impression of one that jerks off when others argue with their outlandish claims. Bet his ego is feeling nice and bloated.
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I can see what you are saying. I guess I may have to high of expectations for them already. They shot out like a rocket and the game is so good, maybe I have too high of expectations. I do believe they could keep the community informed, possibly giving us insight into the timeline for development, like you stated.
You are right, I have no idea what all this would entail, I am not a developer. While I may have over simplified everything, to the point of stupidity, I feel like there is a basic truth to what I am trying to say. There should be some type of increase seen in production of the game. It just may not be on a level that I am expecting. Certainly it isn't as if they need to suit the game to me or anybody else for that matter anyway.
I suppose I let my own selfish desires lead me to post in emotion rather than knowledge when it comes to the depths of the issues, I am sure it is more difficult to do than to simply throw money at it. You are right, throwing money at this won't make it a better game.
Disagreeing is one thing, people on here for the most part are not giving intellectual arguments, such as yours. They are just being fan boy's to the topic. I have been online for years and it is the trend for the mass of people to take up the same ideology without thoroughly thinking through why. You obviously know why you hold your position and honestly you have persuaded me to chill out and let Garry do what he is doing.
This subject is way more in depth than it may appear to an outsider. I don't wish Garry to make stupid business decisions or put the game in detriment for no reason. If though, there isn't noticeable increase in game production within a reasonable amount of time, you can count on a decrease in interest.
It is hard to have an even keel mindset here. To both enjoy the game, want production, and the see the development side of things. That is why it is important to communicate as much as possible what is being done. When you give the community insight and hands on the game this early, it becomes more of their concern and desire to see it through to completion.
Everybody has their opinions, as long as you can state it reasonably, I don't have a problem with it. I think you have persuaded me allow for more time before I reserve judgment towards him not doing anything. I only wish more people where as thorough or straight forward without childishness as you were in your response.
I believe there is truth on both sides, the difference may be that I am ignorant to the development and business side of things. Because of that I concede to your points. Thanks for knowing how to converse with someone coherently.
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If somebody trow me 20 million dollar i will stay on my pc 24/7.
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Please respond to my points on page one.
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The problem is not that we are not providing intelligent rebuttals. The problem is that you began this thread in an utterly contemptuous and arrogant manner, in which you suggested that your opinions were fact and that if anyone disagreed with you, they were sheeple.
When you start off your opinions in such a manner along with ad hominem, people are not going to respond positively. If you would have written this thread and your posts within it in a respectful and concise manner, then the feedback would have been more to your liking. Instead, you have taken this chance to insult everyone with your audacity.
I know personally, I do not feel inclined even in the slightest to entertain a thread when the OP has shown that they do not care for a debate, but for one-sided arguments instead.
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So you don' t like me? You could have just said that.
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This or a version of should be posted on every forum of every game.
People are becoming so simple. Thank you for posting a basic common sense reply. More need to read this
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I do not even know you - so how could I not like you? What I am suggesting is to improve your tact. The fact that you keep getting the same types of responses on most every thread/post of yours shows that it is your tact that is the issue.
Improve your tact, and I can assure you that you will receive better feedback.
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I don't think I can draw the same comparison that you are. 5 people working on a game is a tad different then hundreds working on a game. Those games also weren't pre-release alpha products that rolled updates out weekly. I understand what your trying to say, but I think it is a stretch to apply it to this situation just because they are both video games...
Edited:
So you don't like my writing style.
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Not sure if my suggestions are just going over your head, or if you are being willfully facetious.
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so much whining... can't these kids just ask for a refund?
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And here i thought this was a t h read about finding a elephant ingame. boOOOOO!. BTW, as much as a lot of people are fanboys here(This IS the dev's forum, duh), you look like more of a retard then most of them Numb, good job topping their idiocy.
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I am just interpreting what your telling me.
Edited:
Thanks
Edited:
Why would I want a refund on a game I enjoy? Oh, you didn't read anything.
Agree x 3
Dumb x 2
Optimistic x 1
Disagree x 2
Winner x 4
Funny x 2
Informative x 1
