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Restrictions = very bad idea
Just think of the entirity of the Rust map as "the bad part of town"
Stay off the road, run from gunfire, loot towns when you know no one else is there.
I've played as fresh spawn several times on several servers, solo, and am always able to make a small base and start building up fairly quickly.
One of your main problems may be high pop servers, eg, more than 50 players. Rust map isn't really big enough to support that many simultaneous players. Stick to servers that have less than 25 or so people at a time and it makes for great fun!
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Play on a PvE server
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Thanks for not reading my post entirely.
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Welcome to alpha, where there isn't much to do while the devs work on the other 85-90% of the game.
Plus, the devs explicitly have stated that they are working to maximize player freedom. Making safe zones on PvP servers and flagging player hunters goes completely counter to that ideal.
This is garry's blog about the devs' vision for Rust: http://garry.tv/2013/06/21/the-story-of-rust/
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Ok, I see where Garry is headed. Rust is not for me then.
Thanks to all.
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Oh, I read it :D.
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There's no way to distinguish between a freshspawn and a guy who is running arround naked with guns on his hotbar ready to shoot you if you leave him be because you think he is a freshspawn. You can't blame people for killing them. If you're nice to them, you usually get stabbed in the back anyway. Yes, trying to get started is the worst part in rust as you get killed all the time. But you know what, EVERYONE has to deal with it. Everyone starts as freshspawns, everyone gets killed over and over before they get set up. Deal with it.
I am sick of people crying over it. You're going to get shot in this game. Freshspawn or not. I read your post and you say "please don't tell me to go play pve", well I am sorry , but go play pve. If you can't handle dying then just go on a server where you won't die. But no, you want to kill people too. You just want to get to the part where you get to kill people without any trouble. You want it the easy way.
Tag people who kill freshspawns or KoS? Why? This is a survival fps game. You can play however the fuck you want. If I want to KoS and shoot freshspawns, then I will. If I feel like being friendly and save all the freshspawns, then I will. Why would I have to be tagged for what I do? It's not going to change how I play. Are people going to run away from me? Probably. Are they going to target me? Probably. If they do target me, I will be getting KoS'ed. Making the people who KoS me, Kos'ers. And then they get tagged as well. While we are at it, maybe we should just tag guys who like raiding yellow stars too. See what am getting at here?
KoS'ing is not bad. It doesn't make you evil, it doesn't mean you're a dick. It just means you like shooting and you like getting some action. It's also a way of self-defence. If you KoS someone, it means they can't kill you first. It also means they can't turn arround and shoot you in the back. You're not going to tell me that when you're in a group of 3 people and you run into an other group of 3 people, and all of you have guns and leather/kevlar, that you're not going to shoot at them. Nobody does that.
The game has not turned into a kill-freshspawns fest at all. The best part about the game is raiding people and having an awesome gunfight with other people, regardless of who loses. I'm pretty sure everyone agrees with me that no matter how much stuff you have, going out to raid someone and getting in a huge fight for it, is fucking awesome. Killing freshspawns is nothing.
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I stopped reading you at your 2nd insult.
Very rude person.
No wonder you like the play the game exactly the opposite as I do.
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I agree heavily for this to be at least an option in the future, or hopefully, something someone mods in; but less restrictions, and more of a tag.
Say, someone's clothes get more and more red every time they kill someone who has no weapon besides the rock, until they are bright red, regardless of what armor. Something to give you a big heads up that "this guy will KOS literally anything" without actually hurting the KOSer. Although.... Even if that idea got really, really polished, I feel like 99/100 dudes on any server would eventually be bright red, all the time.
A server flag, option, or just a mod that made fresh-spawns unkillable for X days in-game time could be really nice too, although it would probably be abusable. (differentiating fresh spawn vs guy killing himself repeatedly, etc.)
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one of the servers I play on has a safety period when you first spawn (forget how long) but you cant get killed off right away
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1. This can be accomplished with a Zone Oxide mod.
2. Some servers do this.
3. Some admins have such a rule.
There are many different Rust servers out there with many different 'flavors'.
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You should have kept reading. He wasnt as inulting as you think and I personally am sick of anyone I kill getting pissed or telling me im hacking. Its very simple I have been killed by several nakeds so unless I have back up with 2 or more guys with me, you are not getting the benifit and I am shooting you. I may not take your stuff but I'm not taking any chances.
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Yes he was and you are off topic.
The topic is about people that log on the game SPECIFICALLY to shoot and kill other players.
That go running around either solo or in a gang looking for fresh spawns.
But whatever... seems like people understand what they want to understand.
Furthermore, you know how many times I was shot and killed while running AWAY from someone with a gun? Or minding my own business trying to kill a pig?
I guess that's all the same to you.
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"This is a survival game" is a completely flawed premise. This isn't a survival game. If you get killed, you respawn 3 seconds later. Ergo, it's impossible not to survive.
Also, KoS is not a synonym for PvP. By attempting to produce emergent gameplay, it's inferred that Rust is attempting to mimic real life. However, at no point in the history of "real life" have people immediately shot other people in the face the moment they saw them. And that's exactly what Rust is right now. "Real life" has never been KoS. Rust is currently KoS. Ergo, as long as Rust remains KoS with a respawn system, it will fail at its two primary goals - emergent gameplay and survival.
PvP is great. A sandbox environment is great. Wanton KoS is not. It's just tedious and senseless. I agree that players should NOT be punished for engaging in PvP, but there should be some reason to actually let other players live. Right now, encountering other players is virtually all risk and no reward. This must change.
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QFT
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This argument is convincing, OP's is not. Even if it's on the same side.
Learn to post like this, OP, maybe people will stop flaming you.
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Maybe you should learn how to read and infer.
I distinctly said that I wasn't going into details.
All I get are people that are the same people that makes Rust a POS.
BTW, where did I say I wanted to have a discussion or debate? I just asked a question. Do you know how to read?
I guess you don't understand the difference between a question and an argument.
I'm out.
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That's a very well-made argument. Let's discuss it further!
The issue is, as I see, that in real life there are always consequences for killing another, and potentially good benefits of not killing them.
I reckon that in prehistoric times tribes were doing exactly what we're doing here; they were mostly killing each other on sight. There were no prisons, no law, nothing to deter them. But the controlled land size meant a lot for good hunting, and probably protection too.
Which is a bit similar to the game, I reckon.
Of course there's much more in the game, you can cross the map in a day so people do, and of course people can just spawn somewhere, upsetting the local balance all the time, but let's disregard that for a moment.
Edit: one point I did not follow is that if neighbours would form loose "tribes", they could protect their area far better. That part I've yet to see. It's a very logical step, but it seems everyone alienates their immediate neighbours. Which is extremely stupid, if we think about it. But it seems the "protect my own" gene is stronger than logic.
Edit2: altho to be able to form tribes, we'd have to be able to distinguish each other from a distance, better. (i.e. colourful body paints, etc.)
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Aside from stereotypical portrayals that have no foundation in fact, there's no evidence that mankind ever existed in such a state. There have always been battles, wars and struggles, of course. But there's no evidence of there ever being a period in the history of mankind where people just killed each other the moment they saw them for no other reason than that they crossed each other's paths.
The other part of your post I agree with - in real life, there are consequences for killing other people. In Rust, there are essentially none. In real life, killing someone can result in suspicion, ostracism or even death. None of those threats exist in Rust. There's no real societal structure, so "suspicion" and "ostracism" have no real relevance. And death isn't much of a threat either, since we all respawn. The flipside is that your victim can respawn too, so the consequences he suffers aren't exactly great.
Therefore, one could make the argument "Well if death isn't much of a punishment, then what's the harm with KoS?" Well, mainly that it's tedious.
I wholly support Garry's decision that people should not be punished by the game for engaging in PvP. However, they should be mechanics in place that allow OTHER PLAYERS to punish you. That's a major goal of emergent gameplay, isn't it? To let the players mold the gaming environment? Well you've got to give us some tools to do that. There are certain variables and factors that exist in real life which don't exist natively in a video game. Hell, that's why we have this age old cliche about people that are perfectly nice "in real life", but are raging narcissistic assholes on the internet.
Accountability exists in real life. Accountability is what guides many of the decisions we make in life.
People should have the choice to play Rust how they like. But there needs to be mechanisms in place for the other players to hold that individual accountable.
A social system is likely going to be a critical component here. Just as an example, an ability to have a "friends list" with people you encounter in game. If one of your "friends" is killed, you (and all of your friends' friends) are notified of it. Now you know to be on the watch for that guy. Accountability. Hand in hand with that, there really needs to be an easier way to identify other players. On the server I play on, I've befriended a guy that's housed near me. Problem is, when we encounter each other, I can never tell it's him until I'm about 5 feet away from him.
Also, please understand that my suggestion above (about the friends list thing and whatnot) is not necessarily a suggestion for Rust. It's just a concept to convey an idea.
In sum, the players of Rust need to have tools to do the things that are natural and inherent to real life, but are unnatural and absent in a virtual environment.
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@mavago: I'm going to call into question the sources you use to base your argument that never in the history of mankind people shot others as soon as they saw them.
History is riddled with incidents that happened exactly like this. Everything from wars, to regimes that committed mass genocide; countries engulfed in civil strife; organized crime activity...the list goes for quite a while and all it takes is a google search for murder or massacre.
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You missed the point. (Which is what happens when you're over-zealous about responding without taking the time to actually read what the other person is saying.)
There's never been a point in human history where every person on the planet immediately killed every other human being they ever came into contact with. That's what Rust currently is right now.
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Lol, you don't bother to read my entire reply and then you go and call me a rude person? You know nothing about me and are just making assumptions based on 2 little paragraphs, which you probably didn't even properly read because you disagree with me.
Yes, it seems we play exactly the opposite. And you are the one having issues with the game, not me. Seems to me you are the one playing on the wrong servers.
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No it's not. There are a lot of servers with a lot of mods that change this to varying degrees. That's enough variety for people to find a server to fit their style, instead of asking for the game to fit it instead. If players want to run and gun, that's there style, if they want to role play, or build, or play PvE, then have at it guys. But if I find myself on a server that doesn't suit me, I keep looking.
Other people have different styles, coming on here and pointing the CoD finger isn't going to win the OP any arguments. My point is, regardless of playstyle and the real world equivalence, these ideas should be left for server mods. They don't really add to the freedom that Garry seems to want in the game.
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This is a good realisation for people to have
I think a lot of players come here expecting changes to be made so that the game suits them. They just can't grasp the fact that not every game is going to suit them. Games shouldn't try to be inclusive of all tastes.
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There are plenty of potential consequences for killing people, especially freshspawns on sight.
And there's really only one, rare positive outcome for killing freshspawns.
Let's say you use your gun to kill someone who looks like a freshspawn. If he was an actual freshspawn, you've wasted ammo, time, and if you don't have a silencer you've alerted everyone in the vicinity that there's someone with a gun and possible good gear nearby. Also if you do this enough people on the server will recognize you, and kill you on sight. People could also begin to dislike you. So if you ever want to trade, party up, or get help from anyone else, they're likely to say no because they don't want to risk you shooting them in the back.
There's really only one possibly good outcome to killing a freshspawn. Some people like to pretend they're freshspawns when in actuality they've got some good gear on them. (I once killed a guy who claimed he was a freshspawn. The guy had a P250 and some 9mm bullets with him)
So really, there's only one, pretty rare positive outcome to killing a freshspawn. Otherwise it's a waste of ammo and time. If you're killed as a freshspawn, look on the bright side. You may just respawn next to a good resource patch. And the guy who killed you has fewer bullets to kill you with in the future.
So quit whining about freshspawn killing.
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Rust is a game about player freedom and players want to kill other players. maybe when the game is feature-complete there'll be better things to do than that
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Half the fun in the game is trying to "survive" if it was easy this game wouldn't be so good, the other half is killing players who complain about dying...feeding str8 into that bro.
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See...there's your problem right there...when you say you're pretty sure what the goal of the game is or isn't. There is no set goal. It's an open-ended sandbox. If someone wants to be a douche and go around killing naked people, they can.
If you don't want to play on a PVE server, you should try a server that combines PVE and PVP, of which there are many.
These PVE areas/zones which you suggested has been suggested before...and was dumb-voted into oblivion.
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I see now that I proved Mavajo's logic is wrong as well as his solutions, he's going to flag all my posts as dumb. Really credible.
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I have every Blueprint, I have tons of resources, yet I haven't resorted to shooting people in the face the moment I meet them, because I'm not an asshole.
Not everyone will instantly shoot others in the face, not everyone needs arbitrary "rules" or flagging systems to control themselves.
Does that mean I won't defend myself? Fuck no, I will keep an M4 trained on the person and never turn my back because I recognize that not everyone has the ability to play nice and I will have no qualms about shooting a naked man with a rock if he tries to be smart with me.
I have plenty of stuff to do other than waste time killing noobs/people pretending to be noobs, currently on my server I have blocked off the road and am expanding the base as far wide/long/tall as possible. There will eventually only be one entrance to cross the road that I will control, at which point I will demand my road tolls.
I may not be barbaric but I will get my pound of flesh from travelers wanting to cross.
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"Heroes" should get a buff when mining resources and crafting. They find more resources out of nodes and (possibly) they can craft faster. Now how to decipher a "hero" from a bandit is the tough part. I could see large groups healing each other / giving out food and simply to "buff" their hero status.
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it's called emergent gameplay. you have sociopaths, helpful friends, neutral wanderers. the game is about keeping your head down and starting from nothing.
you take away wanton KoS, you take away that fear. you take away the entire element of being careful, of getting nervous whenever anyone is around. a lot of people aren't killing you because you're naked with a rock. they're killing you because they know people are smart enough to hide their shit and pretend to be naked.
how do i know? because that's what i do. you think i farm in full kevlar? at any given time i'll have a shotgun/m4 on my naked ass, an inventory full of metal or wood. and otherwise completely naked, switching between rock and pickaxe only to gather.
that's what makes this game fun. not knowing. not knowing whether a guy is going to kill you or just walk down the road, but hauling ass anyways because you're carrying stuff you don't want to lose.
if you want safety nets, you're right. rust just isn't for you, my dear.
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The threat of PvP is great. KoS isn't. It's just tedious.
There's no thought process involved. See a guy? Kill him. Sure, it adds fear and tension when you're new. It's thrilling at first. But that fear and tension quickly unravels into tedium and annoyance.
There's minimal social aspects to this game. There's minimal benefit from killing other players. It's just "Ugh, kill this guy before he kills me and I have to waste time respawning." There's no real strategy or decision-making involved. Dying has no real consequence. Killing other people has no real benefit. It's just pointless and tedious.
The KoS adds NOTHING to this game once the novelty wears off. There should be a thought process and decision making involved. A weighing of pros and cons. PvP should be meaningful.
Here's how Wikipedia defines emergent gameplay:
So right there in the definition it explains that GAME MECHANICS are used to shape the emergent gameplay. Suggesting that game mechanics be implemented to encourage an actual thought process in PvP does NOT kill PvP or defy the tenets of the game. In fact, it improves it - since now there's genuine strategy involved and it becomes a critical component of success or failure.
Emergent gameplay is driven BY THE PLAYERS. Thus, policing or preventing KoS should be in the hands OF THE PLAYERS. But right now, the PLAYERS do not have to TOOLS necessary to do it.
KoS is a stupid aspect of this game right now. Period. It's not sustainable long term, and it's detrimental to the game.
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For me the only issue I have with cod: caveman warfare is how simple it is to get your hands on military equipment. Get a bow and slay reds till you learn how to craft a p250 and you pretty much have everything you need to steal a m4 off someone once you get in the right place at the right time. As soon as one guy researches that you and your entire clan is set till wipe.
Honestly I'm saving up any kind of response about the game as a whole until it gets a few more major updates under it's belt.
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you're using the word need a lot. these are your personal needs, not the needs of the community (as you could deduce through public opinion.) and obviously not the needs of the primary developer (as you could deduce from garry's developer blog.)
for example; you want your friends to be more identifiable. you need it to be changed. but some of us see it as a game mechanic. some of us like the tension.
rust is not the natural world. it is a tense, harsh environment. in such a setting you might be on edge around people near your home, squinting from a distance to see their face, wondering if it is a friendly person, a bandit. some of us LOVE the tension.
besides, in a post apocalyptic setting with minimal resources, people would most likely kill each other to benefit themselves. you're citing historical evidence but humanity has never faced such a state, so there is no way to know what exactly would happen.
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God, Garry. Please. Please. PLEASE sneak in a 100 foot monster to cause all kinds of chaos!
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entirely subjective and opinionated, and as i said garry and much of the community disagrees. i entirely disagree. you need to be on a PoE server.
lol it's an alpha, bud. also subjective. but garry has already said that he is working on ways to make it more fun without hindering gameplay. you're playing a game that's 10% complete. read dev blogs.
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Garry is working on a humanity system.
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Sorry OP, this is the wrong type of thread to start in these forums, KOS and freerange freshspawn killing is here to stay. That is what the majority of the vocal players want, so that's the way it is.. You will be flamed, insulted, and ridiculed for even suggesting anything different....
Unfortunatly since it is already that way, I don't see it ever changing, even through to retail release. I would suggest playing on a PVE server.
Disagree x 31
Agree x 10
Dumb x 8
Friendly x 1
Winner x 2
x 1
x 1
Late x 2
Optimistic x 1
