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MoreHi All,
Long time lurker, first time poster. I don't want to come across as a 12 year old who doesn't think things are fair, but there is a major issue with this game. Let me start by saying I have been gaming from 15+ years. I consider myself a mature gamer and have played everything from C&C to all the Warcraft games (including WoW), COD, BF, Minecraft, etc.
To give you some background, I've researched Rust for a while before paying for it. I loved the open world of Minecraft and the survival aspect of this was awesome. Now, according to Steam, I have 35 hours played in this game (in 8 days) and have absolutely nothing to show for it. I've played on official and community servers, PvP and PvE. PvE was enjoyable, but because of limited content, it gets stale. So, I tried PvP.
The problem is that everyone wants to kill everyone. And spawn ganking seems to be the norm. For me, I knew to expect this, and wasn't deterred. However, I think I'm going to hang up the towel. It is beyond frustrating to spend time starting out with nothing, gathering materials (which is hard to do on populated servers), only to be ganked by the "server raid crew". What I have seen on every server is that there are bands of people who have EVERYTHING, just running around and killing people.
Don't misunderstand me - I am fully aware of the PvP & survival nature of this game. The fact that you lose everything is an added incentive to not do stupid shit. But I'm tired of finally having enough wood to build a shack and getting ganked, being looted, and having to respawn.
The ganking isn't the issue - the issue is all these people who have geared up and feel empowered to just kill people. I understand that is the point of the game, but there is a huge fairness issue when someone has every weapon and 100+ rounds for each and just team up and kill spawns.
/rant off
Solutions
Implement "neutral zones" where PvP is disabled. Similar to the towns in WoW, where fighting cannot occur (obv you can't build a shelter in a safe zone)
Implement a player level system, so as a level 25 player cannot just run around ganking level 1s and 2s.
Final Thoughts
I love this game - it is so addictive that I keep starting over and I can't answer why, with how frustrated I am. Make it so that spawns have a fair shot of getting supplies, weapons, and some armor within the first 1-2 days.
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Stopped reading after this, It is alpha, it is 10% complete. Rest of your argument is invalid.
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Agree. This was another thread about "im tired of getting supplies and getting ganked."
Protip: Welcome to rust. Survival means survival. This isn't an MMORPG where safe zones and non-safe zones are incorporated.
It's a complete Survival sim. That means you're at risk no matter where you are. Get use to it.
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There ARE PvP and safe zones!
If you want a safe zone build a community! everything outside is PvP
As long as you keep your buildings up even a small group can hold off a large bandit party.
As for when you log off, I never sleep in my house. My house is for when I am logged on and need to use the furnace workbench etc.
I actually sleep in a hidey-hole and so far I havent been killed in a whole 2 days, literally my character in rust is 48+ hours old
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Your comments don't address the issue. Saying "welcome to rust" is just silly. Or saying "build a community" is pretty asinine for a spawn that has a rock and 3 bandages. Maybe I'm just not playing the game correctly, but I just feel that spawns are had a huge disadvantage currently.
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It doesn't provide emergent gameplay. It's an overused system in mmo games.
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You must not know what survival means, there is NO SAFE ZONES! it will make the game shit. Just learn how to play the game.
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You need to remember this game is only 10% complete. Everything is unbalanced, but will get better with time. This is an open world sandbox, that typically means safezones are created by the community. With that said at 10% complete alpha right now with so many wipes it is harder to build a community so most just run around killing.
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It's not even that you aren't playing correctly, it's that you either have the wrong mindset or you are playing the wrong game. Listen to what people have said, if you want safety, join or build a community. There is safety in numbers. Solo players will not be able to farm and maintain the resources for a large by themselves if they are on a populated server, so you need to build many small bases in as hidden of areas as you can. Spread your loot out and have multiple beds/sleeping bags in advantageous areas.
This game absolutely does not need a safe zone, there is no point for that other than to stare at each other's dicks and say "Gee, what do we do?" If you have such a hard time against other players, maybe PvE servers or Friendly PvP servers with strict fresh spawn rules and active admins.
Edit: And on every server that I restart on or after a server wipe, I have a gun and some armor within the first hour. You need to read up or watch more videos, or just explore the game world on suicide expeditions like the rest of us, so you know the map and where most people will be and where the loot spawns. It's frustrating because you haven't put enough time and deaths into exploring and creating a mental map for yourself to rely on. You will die, you are not supposed to keep your gear and your house will be raided and griefed. Bouncing back and getting revenge is the next step.
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I normally don't relpy to these discussions, but you don't normally see people address this without crying and whining... so kudos to you OP for a well thought out post, refreshing to see mature folks around here that know how to articulate themselves without seeming like a 12 year old....
To the other posters being jerks, yea, ok.... Nice... But I understand it's easier to be rude and just say "you dont matter", like you do.....
Anyway... I understand the frustration, and it does pay to be 1) An early survivor on a server, 2) Have more time than others, and most importantly 3) part of a pack....
Open world pvp isn't for the feint of heart by any means, and maybe there needs to be some sort of sanctuary... What harm would that cause anyway, except a place for the griefers and KOS folks to complain about because they can't gank everyone they see....
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His frustration stems from not being familiar with the map, this is not an issue with game mechanics or player interaction.
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Implement "neutral zones" where PvP is disabled.
Go buy another game because people like you destroyed every single open pvp game on the market.
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You are other that does not understand what open world sandbox is. This is not WoW and safezones that are not community driven have no place here. Has nothing to do about gankers, griefers and anything. It is about the playstyle the game offers. Adding NPC safezones is not open world sandbox.
All I got from OP was, I played this game many hours and got nowhere, I played Wow and think it should have those features.. Not many understand what open world means, you included.
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While this isn't the most polite or accurate way to put it -I would say this is kind of true. In reality, the core issue behind what you are frustrated with is that there isn't enough content yet. There isn't much to do besides killing each other, and that is why your situation is the way it is. In time, there will be sooooo much more added, and with more to do besides gank noobs, it will help alleviate some of what you are experiencing.
I hope that is helpful and encouraging. My advice, stick with it. If you absolutely can't stand it, take a break, let them add more content, and come back.
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You are correct, I could have been a bit politer, the problem is so many of these posts exist. So many people bitching about content in a game that is in early alpha at only 10% complete. My frustration gets the best of me at times and my posts can at times be brash.
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My frustration does NOT stem for not knowing the map. In fact, I can navigate and orient myself with no problem. In fact, with my dual-monitor setup, I have a map on my second screen at all times. I know where the loot spawns, and I know not to build a shelter at the hangar, etc.
I'm also not just ranting - I'm trying to provide solutions to my rants.
I hear what you all are saying about open world, survival, etc. I get it, believe me, I do. That's exactly why I want to play this game and have it be a huge success.
Maybe 35 hours isn't enough playtime in many of your opinions, but I feel that I have a good working knowledge of the game, how it is supposed to be played, and how to survive. The issue becomes that there are others in servers that just want to ruin the experience.
We've all been there as a new spawn and know how frustrating it is. But what is even more frustrating is trying to find a good server with a good group of people.
It's very easy to say "that's not how this game works", but to the development team, I'm sure they would rather have a more inclusive game rather than isolating to a niche market.
I'm going to continue to play and try to become part of a community, but it shouldn't take 35 hours of gameplay to figure stuff out, only to have no defense to the raiding bandit groups that make it their mission to just be dicks to others.
PS - I do not want this game to be like WoW. And my reason for comparing to WoW was to express my opinion about safe zones. And if you all feel they are not appropriate for this game, fine. But I feel like there could be a single sanctuary where spawns can go, get some basic resources, craft a bit, and be more equipped to wonder out into the environment.
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5th February 2014 Last edited by lewyk13; 5th February 2014 at 06:03PM. (retract partial comments)
Post #17
First of all, please do not presume to know what I understand or don't.... You are the example of the typical player that treats others like trash if they do not agree with you, other players and members of the community have opinions too, and they matter as much as yours.
Second.... Please notice the word "maybe" in my post.... This was an attempt to get a civil discussion going, nowhere did I agree or disagree with the OP, and I asked a valid question at the end. If you cannot contribute to the discussion in a civil and productive manner, maybe you need to spend your time elsewhere,
(after seeing later posts by this member I will retract some of the more "harsh" comments")
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I hear ya brother, and I know what you mean. But, if we love the game, and what the game can be, we should all be trying to help others understand that. I'm not really referring to you, but in general a lot of people in these threads just slamming OP's who are having a rough time does not promote the game at all. If you really love baseball, then you want other people to love baseball too, it's good for the sport. You don't tell someone having trouble with it to "f*ck off go play soccer".
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Seeing this game does not have a real "direction" on what it is going to turn out to be, 35 to learn is actually not too bad. I have 100 and just found out about using shift and ctrl to make crafting in bulk faster LOL.
I understand you frustration as a solo person logging in and just being killed by people over and over. unfortunately that is pretty much the only fully working aspect so killing everyone/anyone is still hot until more features are added.
Safezones again, I will never want or like them. Right now again due to so many wipes and an unclear direction on what is going to happen for features no one really takes playing too seriously so communities are far from being established.
I hope you stick with it!
I rent my own server that a few of us play on. We build a lot of arenas and PvP with each other. We have kept ourselves pretty happy.
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That's about the best single post I've seen on these forums! Besides, the OP didn't come here crying and whining.... He came here with a concern regarding the game, explained it without raging, and offered solutions..... Agree or disagree does not matter, but how you do it does.
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Well, it seems I am in the minority with my idea for safe zones. So be it. But the manner in which many of you respond to posts is exactly what the problem is with this game. You feel that you are correct and f*ck everyone else. Kind of like once you've found all the gear and have a full set of kevlar, f*uck everyone else that is trying to experience this game (maybe for the first time).
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The game doesn't really need safezones. The problem is that we are on a test map and all the resources are in one area. Most of the map is not even being used. So, there is no way for someone starting out to build up resources after everyone else is stocked and equipped with the best gear.
Rust is fun, but it's only 10% complete. That leaves a lot of room for gameplay imbalances such as this.
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And THIS is what drives people away from the game, not the game itself........
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Actually there are PVE/PVP servers with pvp limited to certain times events and/or areas.
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But many are arguing that that is the entire point of the game, so how does it get fixed? I understand the content argument - not having enough to do. But adding in a bunch more content doesn't necessarily cause people to stop being dicks because there is more content.
In any case - it sure is a great sociology experiment. Hate to see the world if there ever is a major, worldwide incident.
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No. Checkmate communists. Next question.
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That's kind of easy... The strong would survive, the weak wouldn't, or best case the weak would be subservients to the strong... The instinct to survive is stronger than any morals. But just to be a jerk because you can, isn't the same.
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Not sure what you mean, but if that's how it is, not really a good game right? I mean if only the strong survive, than the weak can never become strong. And who is going to keep playing a game where they are a servant and just get bossed around or shot? Not going to be too many of those types playing I'd imagine.
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That was in reference to your last sentence, about a RL worldwide incident....
But this game as-in (PLEASE PEOPLE, emphasis on AS-IS) is excactly like that on the bigger servers, and the official servers...... That very well could change once more of the map gets populated, imagine the population of LA getting crammed into Sacramento.... Yea, you are going to have problems.
But how many will be left until then? I know, nobody cares about everyone else, but we should... The more players that stick around, the more successful this game will be, and the longer we can play it, and see it grow.
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The bottom line that everyone seems to miss is that it is in EVERYONE'S best interest to have AS MANY people enjoying this game as possible. And as I said, if I am in the minority, that's fine, but there is no need to flame people who are trying to contribute and doing so in a meaningful and mature way.
And to all of you who keep beating the "only 10%" drum, no kidding. It's ALPHA. As I said, I'm not new to games, and am well aware of what Alpha means. It means that the developers are looking for FEEDBACK from the players. That is what this whole thread was about.
Now back to collecting wood.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but u posted there to know the community opinion, right?
Then again, some users asnwered, saying that this feature would just put the game further away from what it realy is: a survival game.
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Safe Zones? No, absolutely not.
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But I think part of this conversation has morphed into, why can't people express opinions without flaming and treating other people like they don't matter.... We all play the game, we are all equally important, and equally deserving to have a civil conversation?
and with that:
Why not? Playing devil's advocate here, but what would a safe zone for other people, that is not mandatory to use, take away from YOUR experience?
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If you want a safe zone, look to a server running a mod that has such a thing. It goes completely against what this game is about by having that though. I totally get your frustration, but you're asking to partially remove the core of what the game is about.
Also, you have very few hours in the game, until you are more comfortable, you should play on smaller servers. Everyone wants to be on a 100+ person server, but at around 75-100, things start getting pretty hairy. When our servers hits 100, all nakeds die, because if you don't kill them, nakeds start pulling out guns. I'm not giving a full set of kev, m4 and shotgun with mods to some guy that tried to bluff me. A new player playing on a 75+ server even, is like going to a race track and expecting to be competitive with a track full of drivers who have been doing this for a long time when it's your first time on a track.
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Sorry. This game isn't designed to appease casuals.
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This is the part you need to wrap your head around. This IS the experience.
It's not ruining the game, its playing the game as its intended to be played.
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I'll toss in. I've 18 hours in (which is about a week of gaming for me) so I'm still pretty new. I'd recommend a new server to begin with possibly. I typically play on some random Community server but it maxes out at 50. The game has a good feel to it. The primary game play areas are hot enough to be exciting but its not impossible to get away from everything, just the way I like it.
And just so you don't think I'm "one of them": I don't raid, I don't KOS, I've yet to attack first. But I like not having safe zones. I've only been player killed twice very early on before I knew anything about the map. I play very cautious. I stick to tree lines and boulders. I stop every 30 yards or so to check my surroundings. If I'm not moving I'm crouching. If I see anyone, naked or outfitted, I lay low. I've got no business with them nor they me. But interactions do still happen occassionally. And they are TENSE. Sometimes they go well. Sometimes they get bloody. I LOVE that tension. And I've managed to avoid being player killed since about my 5th hour.
I think that not having a safe zone forces people like you and I to remain "in contention". If there's a safe zone, I believe that folks like you would stay safely there until you got your footing. Which means that I can't run into you in the wild. And have a tense interaction that ends without blood shed. Where we both walk away saying, "Whew!". Without us out there, every interaction in the Versus zone becomes deadly. Whereas now I feel like theres maybe a 40% chance a random player encounter will be a relief, just another player like me or you. Maybe we trade or give map information. If all safety seeking players had a safe zone in which to reside, that makes my chance of a friendly wild encounter in the Versus area go down to what, maybe 5%? Maybe.
I think a lot of the tension would be drawn out of the game. And that's really whats setting this game apart from others for me right now. It just feels very different. I definitely see why you might want a safe zone. But losing that pregnant tension, that's 100% on at all times in game...that would be a bummer.
Again, maybe a different server? I play on a community server that something like "Multiplay, New, Herndon VA". Try that. Dont get me wrong. My buddy and I see some real douchebags in the chat, and I see people being occassionally frustrated by them. But I think that's gonna be anywhere. The key is having a little less player density. I've yet to be spawn killed or griefed in anyway. But again, perhaps my playstyle keeps me out of most of that.
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ABSOLUTELY NOT and SHAME on you for even suggesting this! if you want this kind of play mod your server to do so, but stop crying to the devs to put something into the game the effects EVERYONE instead of dealing with the the way it was meant to be played. The dev's have given us something truly unique and has been a long time missing in the industry, a free open world sandbox game where players get to make the decision on how it is played with no hard coded rules/areas. The hand holding in games has gone on LONG enough and if you want this feature I suggest you look into modding a server to fit your needs.
However with that said I can offer you some constructive idea's on how you could enjoy the game a little bit more in your play style:
I would suggests looking for a server with the following:
- Frequent Wipes, so you are on a even playing field with everyone else
- Lower population so you are not getting ganked all the time
- Low tech servers or uncraftable C4 servers so your base is much more secure
Also if playing on higher population server is an issue and your getting shot down all the time before you can get established you are not in an isolated enough spot. The first server I tried was 50-100 pop on main stream hours, it took me 5 attempts just to get a foundation, 4 walls, ceiling, sleeping bag, and a metal door up, but I did it, and it is part of the fun / excitement on the game. On higher populated servers you have to play different. You don't have the luxury of just running around willy nilly without someone noticing you. Your best bet is to run somewhere far off the beaten path like a little ways past hacker valley, or some isolated spot but close enough to resource until your established. Also another way to survive in this game is numbers, if your playing solo on a highly populated server you are going to have a really hard time! Try to find a small group of people that will band up with you and you will see a huge difference. Another good thing to note is when building a base in most cases if someone wants to raid it they will and can. The goal when building your base is to make it as irritating as possible for someone to raid it, that its just not worth their time or resources. Last but not least in a higher populated server, a silencer mod is your best friend!
In conclusion:
- Don't beg or cry to the dev's to change the game to how you would like it, its an open world with the freedom to play however you like, lets hope it stays that way
- Higher Populated servers you need numbers, more silencers, and need to be further out in the map till you are situated
I hope this helps!
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Lone Wolf can work with some patience, luck and adopting the right set of skills. I play primarily solo and it is rough but not impossible. I've managed to play on servers solo and get (nearly) everything researched and a fairly nice stash included C4 to make raids on people with.
-Play on smaller servers
-Play at odd hours if you can, less population
-If you have nothing, you have nothing to lose: Run for crates and such in Rad Towns
-Build a bow first, this will net you more cloth/food and allow you to hunt zombies
-Build a base far from anyone else, even if it is away from resources, alternatively build only small bases (1x1x1) that are concealed.
-I luck out at Dawn/Dusk for making runs on things could be personal luck there
-If you see someone raiding another player's house, hide, don't run, often raiders leave things behind that aren't worth the inventory slots for them. Blueprints, cloth, food, etc is not rare to find in raided homes.
-Do not use without researching: C4, Explosives, Radiation Gear, Kevlar Armor, etc
-Small Stashes can hide these things until you can research them. Try this put a Large Storage Chest in the corner at an angle, put Small Stash behind it. It is less likely to be touched in case of a raid.
-Stay Alert, keep your head on a swivel. If you have a good headset use it vs speakers, directional sound is a life saver.
This may not be the game for everyone you need to adapt to the situation and it is maddeningly frustrating trying to get off the ground in the game. I don't think making safe areas is a good solution. I like plans in place like more defense options and to a less extent locked backpacks (this one seems like a double-edged sword).
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