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Post #81
Oh god this thread made my day.
And as for the topic: As a person who does cheat (yes deal with it) the method is useless and it will quickly change to cheaters having fresh private accounts with only rust on.
If you want to effectively want to combat cheaters (in I.E. rust for example) with more then VAC give admins a spectator tool.
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I've been admin on several gmod servers, I know the experience isn't quite analogous it should be sufficient to make a point. Spectating is not that useful. A server of 30 people, running around, shooting etc is hard enough to moderate. You suspect one person of cheating and spend 10 minutes watching them, in that time 3 other people are doing stuff and the guy your watching just happens to be cutting trees or chatting to his buddy. Screen capping the offender is better, you see exactly what they see then hacks will get smarter and they will build hidable gui's into it. As anti cheats get better so do the cheats.
This takes me onto the next point, vac doesn't actively stop cheaters. If a new, or private cheat is around vac probably won't detect it. So it doesn't stop the cheat from existing or the cheater fro m causing trouble (this is now in the hands of the server staff) but it will dissuade the hacker from distributing his cheat, knowing that once in the public domain it is just a matter of time until it is discovered and removed.
Likewise small timer hackers will get banned from their games and put off from using a cheat again, knowing they will need to spend money.
Stopping small time hackers/kids from using hacks and stopping the hack developers from distributing is a pretty large portion of the potential hacking community cut out.
Prevention is half of the battle.
Anyway I think its fair for people to be banned permanently from their games for trying to cheat. Be an adult and face the consequences of your actions.
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If you truly are a "psychologist" then I have a question for you. If you truly believe that looking for an advantage over other players is indicative of anti-social behavior, then surely you must believe that violent video games (such as Rust, a game where you go around senselessly murdering other helpless players for enjoyment) lead to behavioral problems as well.
I mean, it would be ridiculous for you to think that cheating to gain an advantage over other players is related to negative behavioral traits, but at the same time believe there is no connection between violent video games and negative behavior. That would be idiotic.
Unless of course you DO believe that violent video games are related to odd behavior, in which case you would fall into that category. The same category that relates to those who are prone to cheating. Thus making you prone to cheating. Along with everyone else who plays this game.
Or maybe that's too much of a stretch. And maybe saying that cheating being related to odd mental make-up is also too much of a stretch. Maybe it's all bullshit and you just said something very, very stupid. And maybe you're just too stubborn or arrogant to say "I was wrong in trying to compare online cheaters to rapists and murderers and other deviants."
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Oh god this thread made my day.
And as for the topic: As a person who does cheat (yes deal with it) the method is useless and it will quickly change to cheaters having fresh private accounts with only rust on.
If you want to effectively want to combat cheaters (in I.E. rust for example) with more then VAC give admins a spectator tool.
why not give the spectator tool, while also adding another line of defense in forcing the less persistent hackers out of the server?
as it stands, some admins are willing to forgive hackers of previous injustices. if hackers encounter servers that automatically ban those who have VAC bans in other games, why would they create a fresh account? they would simply hop to another server with a more lenient admin.
added lines of defense can never hurt when it comes to keeping folks like you out. honestly, i'd just like to see it implemented everywhere so that your total investment with the game could increase by another $20.00. at least you would be adding something more then to the legitimate gameplay and enjoyment of others, as opposed to playing the role of a detriment and a sucking leech within the community.
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That's a nice post you made there with some great points that i forgot myself when i was writing my post.
And i agree with it.
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i could write you a book on childhood development and baseline human behavior, but i will put this bluntly;
humans are animals at their base. we are social animals. we are driven by social structure; we are developed by it. fifty years ago, violence in media was not a social standard. it is repulsive to the older generation. now it is. our appreciation for these things is not driven by mental makeup, but by society.
for example, sane person A plays "halo" and enjoys killing other players. sane person A displays no violent tendencies.
psychotic person B plays "halo" and enjoys killing other players. psychotic person B murders classmates.
people are born with these makeups, or driven to them by serious negative life experiences, and these makeups cause them to overstep the SOCIETAL NORM. a cheater displays irregular behavior over other human beings. compensation? mental deficiencies? something is wrong there.
a regular player is satisfying the natural human competitive spirit in a normal, baseline fashion.
so, in summation; playing violent video games is not indicative of mental issues. any up to date psychologist will tell you that the prevalence is due to the social norm. it is what's popular. (of course, if you're playing school shooting simulations, rape simulations, "hentai" games, and things like that, there is a whole different issue. patients that display these tendencies are obviously different than baseline.)
however, cheating to overcome other humans/harm them is indicative of an issue.
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Well, I was just gonna leave you to it because the last time I replied to you, you decided to give some over complicated response that honestly looked like you were trying to impress someone but when I read this part, I had to respond.
Let's just clear this up. In NO WAY have your analogies been "largely misrepresented". You compared cheating in a video game to murder and pedophilia which is something that most people here disagree with. It's also the one thing that has led many people to address what you've said. That's that. Whether you were indirectly comparing them or not, it doesn't matter. Just because people disagree with you, doesn't mean you were "misrepresented".
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i'm sorry if you or anyone disliked my analogies. i just wanted to represent the difference between normal and nontypical human behavior, why individuals can and should be labeled as high risk, and why it is wise to practice risk aversion from such individuals.
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lol why does anyone care about yours either?
no one likes you here. that's all you are, a "Big mouthed smart arse". Everyone you reply to you belittle.
If you didn't care about my opinion, don't reply to it. I can't see myself caring about what and whose account was disabled, and quite honestly you're a prick if you think vac = automatic account suspension.
or maybe that person just you know, thought it'd be funny to fuck around a bit
this isn't stuffing someone in the basement for gods sake quit it, lmao, it's seriously pathetic. Sure, a lot of them may be that way but stop being so insanely cynical towards everyone, it'd indicative of exceptionally negative behaviors
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i never said that vac is an automatic account suspension you stupid douche.
learn to read, i replied to another guy before.
but to make this clear, it was my account that they disabled without any warning nor beeing marked by vac.
so shut up if you got no idea what happened
you act like you would be somewhat special just because you raised 25k posts and paid for your golden title.
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Did I strike a nerve in you?
and why did your account get enabled, do I sense someone cheating? or maybe being naughty?
oh and
"i never said that vac is an automatic account suspension you stupid "
yes you did say that, learn to read.
sorry if i hit your feelings ;)
I really don't see why I should care
also, no, I didn't pay for my golden title actually. Nor did anyone get it for me. Used to be that you get it free after 5 years and 2000 posts.
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wow you are so pathetic and ignorant that you even fail to read a simple comment.
nice try turning my own comments against me, so cute.
how can you fail like that? my grammar isnt that bad but you obviously failed to use your brain once
what the fuck are you even doing here, you arent even playing Rust turd!
you are just here to be the ONE guy bothering everyone else, now take your own dick out of your mouth you uneducated twat.
yes NOW i am raging cause it seems to be the only way you listen
edit// once again, NO VAC BAN, i talked about beeing disabled and the reason is out of your interest you stupid piece of shit.
learn to use IDA and come back
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Dude you have multiple posts saying literally exactly that
like I'm not trying to make this shit up. That's exactly what you said.
stop crying and get off your high horse. Someone finally shit on you about your arrogance, get over it.
"i would prefer to delete their whole steam account once a cheater got cought"
how is that not automatic account suspension as soon as they get marked for a cheat like really
So what did you do to get it disabled? was it hacked? credit card fraud? buy it off ebay?
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i at least got something to proof off while riding on the biggest horse on your planet.
get Rust and we can talk about related stuff
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Actually, I do have rust, I've had rust since it actually first came out
even without rust that doesn't change how arrogant you are acting.
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so you own multiple accounts?
final words for today: get lost and stop bothering other users with your wannabe knowledge about vac or cheats
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I don't understand what that has to with anything. And why would that even say I own multiple accounts anyways?
the moment I started replying to you and calling out your arrogance you backpedaled hardcore, and getting really whiny angry.
So why are all your posts angry anyways?
that and,
I know enough about vac. I don't know if you know anything yourself kid.
EDIT:
You even cry about ratings too. Really now? You have worse behavior than him, you act like your 8.
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I just can't take anyone seriously when they hold such an extreme position as this.
"You wallhacked in a game. Destroying all game licenses."
Because that's totally an appropriate punishment for the harm committed. How selfish and self-righteous can you get?
You sure have spent a lot of time responding to a big-mouthed smart arse that you couldn't care less about.
I think you've got a cruuuuuuuuush.
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S-stop Im' blushing
me with a secret lover?
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This is all well and good, unless you subscribe to the blossoming theory that winning/being recognized at all costs is becoming a part of the social norm, especially among athletes and on the internet.
This belief has always been present but in the ever increasing world of worshiping the rich & famous, attempting to become one of those at any cost has increased dramatically and borders on a social norm. That is why performance enhancing drugs are such a hot button issue among today's athletes. Additionally look at the things people are doing to increase twitter followers, youtube/twitch subscribers and the like, cheating at a video game fits right in perfectly to this idea.
I'm no psychologist but I'm no dummy either. I know enough that I could easily debate and even write a thesis on the subject.
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i was primarily displaying why it should be acceptable to keep these people out. people who display high risk behavior remain a risk. again, you have overstepped my points. how you equate being logical and cynical is a mystery to me. however i am amused that you feel any room to talk, boasting nazi related imagery either out of a desire for public attention or a true personal interest. i have worked with several rehabilitated neo-nazis if you would like to talk.
Edited:
were cheating and advancing through ill-gotten means a societal norm, these people would not be made into such pariahs when caught. look at lance armstrong; his career is effectively ended.
certainly the pressure to succeed is prevalent, but those who succumb to said pressure do so due to personal weakness brought on by experiences or genotype. persons who display these types of behaviors are expelled, and made pariahs, because the societal norm conflicts with their makeups.
"once a cheater, always a cheater;" it's a popular saying. no amount of therapy or medication can 100% effectively stop people from displaying these characteristics if they have displayed them even once before.
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You do realize my avatar is a joke to poke fun at reddit right? Please stop this psychologist talk. You don't even know me dude
and how is cheating even high risk behavior anyways? You're saying it like it's an actual crime that hurts people
They cheated years ago, doesn't mean they're still going to do it. Instantly shitting on them by banning them from rust doesn't solve anything after all, and while you may not be saying that, when someone hasn't a vac ban in a very long time it's much less likely they'll do anything at all.
If you were an actual psychologist you would know that that's complete bullshit.
Everyone was a douchey kid once, some cared less than others. This isn't gambling you know, or cheating at poker. People hack because they don't care at the time. So, what? if someone, regardless of the reason, decides to dick around at age 13 on rust with a radar, that means they're going to be cheating when they are 30 as well unless they are medicated or have therapy?
I'm sorry but yes, you are fucking cynical. Doesn't take a psychologist to figure that out.
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I know that I base all my psychological analysis on pop witticisms and folk adages.
I can't wait to be operated on by my doctor next week; he bases all his diagnosis decisions on anecdotes about cats. Apparently I have an impacted hairball in my left lung.
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What? lol? Is that what you tell your patients? "Hi there, listen, quick note before we begin, I know you cheated on your wife and you've both been going through some hard times but I have to tell you, I have no chance of preventing you from doing similar things like this again, so you might as well just give me your money and just keep cheating on her."
I'm sure you're now gonna tell me that I've "misrepresented" you again, but you have just said that you can't 100 percent stop people from cheating if they have cheated before yes? So, okay.
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1. i've never been on reddit, but i would note joke by representing myself with things like that.
2. in a game like rust, where people spend hours of effort advancing, only to lose everything to a hacker (losing unjustly is much more effecting than losing within the bounds of competition,) that is very damaging not only to the player but to the game.
3. like i said before, it doesn't mean they will do it FOR SURE. it means there is an elevated risk. see my prior post where i noted that i would like people to efficiently read if they are to respond.
4. you questioning my occupation is not rattling, so believe what you wish. however i will tell you that cheating is a behavior of PREVALENCE. for example children who admit to cheating at board games at very young ages are much more likely to cheat on spouses in adulthood, or even lie to further their position. it is simply that type of behavior. is this true in all cases? no. the saying is not 100% accurate, but it has plenty of scientific backing.
5. again, i have been advocating risk aversion. you are mistaking me being literal for me being cynical. if i did not see the good in human beings, why would i approach abnormal behavior so harshly?
6. (whitetail): see 4. you don't realize how backed by science the folk adage is, but i suggest you read scholarly articles on the topic.
7. (k-b-k): you can not be sure 100%. the behavior may never rise again, but the risk is always increased no matter what approach you take. cheating is a behavior that is extremely embedded within a person.
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Why don't you start by citing four so we can get started?
The burden of proof is on you.
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i am not at my office, so i can't log into our database. this article documents and gives the title of a familiar study by the university of minnesota:
Youths displaying the same behaviors:
http://www.businessnewsdaily.com/362...t-workers.html
University of NY on genetic predisposition to cheat:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-yvo..._b_791675.html
"In looking at potential biological mechanisms for sexual pursuits outside of a union, Justin Garcia and his team of researchers interviewed 181 participants about their sexual behavior and relationships, in addition to taking cheek samples of their DNA. Findings indicate that, regardless of gender, those with a DRD4 genetic variation -- 7R+ -- were likelier to be promiscuous, as in one-night stand, or to cheat on their spouse, with 50 percent of them having been unfaithful (vs. 22 percent of the participants who did not have this genetic variation)."
Excerpt from another public article; as you will see, and as I believe, people cheat through this logical thinking process, which is affected by experience/genetics, and is indicative of nontypical human behavior that is ingrained:
In 1996, the psychologist and economist George Loewenstein presented a cold, rational formula: people weigh the benefits of the unethical action against the costs of committing it, and decide accordingly. That same year, the psychologists David Messick and Max Bazerman countered with a less precise, more emotional approach, positing that cheating is the result of a highly subjective reasoning process that includes three types of argument: how we think about the world, how we think about other people, and how we think about ourselves.
you can find all of these types of sources easily, these are just articles that i have read through before (and unfortunately could not link you to because our database is a lockbox unless i'm in the office for legal reasons.)
Edited:
when you go to look up more, try JSTOR.
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I cheat in GTA whenever I play, is that bad?
In highschool I cheated playing go fish once, and lost harder, did that massive loss save me or am I just as doomed?
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You sir, are not SAVED! *Does a dance to terrible techno*
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Studies have been done.
You may as well get a big red "A" tatooed on your forehead, because you are going to cheat on your spouse.
You might direct any future girlfriends to this thread as you explain to them that it may be due to a DRD4 genetic variation, and that it's perfectly natural for you. She may be understanding or even have the same condition.
But hang up all hope of a normal life. Studies have been done, you see. :/
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ahahaha that is the dumbest thing I have ever read.
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-nevermind, whatever-
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