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Post #1Well after playing for 5 days now I have to say I am quite disappointed. What was supposed to be a “survive in the wild” game has turned out to be just another survive the thieving murdering ghetto scum game. The fact that on a non PVP server another player can come up to you and just start stealing your stuff and you can not do anything about it just cultivates the thieving scum to run ramped and ruin what could be a good game.
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its alpha bruh
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In this thread: "I've played for 2 hours and I know everything about this game"
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every open world multiplayer survival game is full of faggotry, you can either
A. learn how to deal with them and beat them
B. stick to playing single player and co-op games
or C. cry like a little baby until you get laughed off the forums then go straight to option B
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So you are saying if you had it your way, you want a survival game where you cant kill people and cant take stuff from people. If not people, what else are we supposed to survive against ? Zombies arent a real threat, neither is wildlife.
Do you just want an open world base building simulator ?
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No matter how hardcore survival in the wild this game becomes there will always be bandits trying to live off the hard works of others. However the OP have a point that this game could use allot more survival game mechanics. Right now it's just too easy to stay alive PvE wise. All you need to do now is how to figure out how to kill a pig and make a camp fire and your set for life, that is extremely easy.
To enhance the survival aspect of the game we should also have to look for water not just food. Adding snakes, spiders and other animals that can poison us and herbs to remedy it. Removing magic fire too would be a good step. Where we have to rub sticks against each other to create fire or use flint and steal.... Making it so we don't want our fire to burn out.... There are allot of things that can be done to this game to make it allot more survival.
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How much survival are we talking about when you are not afraid to die, because you have respawn (sleeping bag) near?
I think death does not lead to serious consequences (except when you are just starting, but then it's not such a loss) in Rust. Hence, there is no real survival issue. It's more a farming game than a survival experience, in the current state of things.
Edited:
Not to mention the fact that you cannot use coal to make fire in your campfire! (is it it much more efficient than burning logs?)
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I really like to make music and do audio work, contact me if you need some yes?
June 2013
1,681 Posts
PvP is pretty much the main point of Rust, if you wanted to play the game without it you're gonna wind up pretty disappointed once you get everything you can.
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Your first mistake, assuming this started out or currently is a "survive the wild" game. Second mistake, not reading the game's description to understand your first mistake before coming to the forums to cry because you can't survive.
In your defense though, non-pvp is a bit misleading for servers. Non-friendly fire would be more appropriate.
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Actually I would not say that PvP the main point is at all, it's about survival.
At least in my interpretation of what I read from the Devs is that the environment is your main enemy, which you will need to survive, we'll find out if that's by hunting animals (which is indeed way too easy currently and will get much more challenging when all the military grade weapons are gone) or by gathering&planting at a later development stage.
The multiplayer aspect is supposed to give the game the thrill of not knowing what happens and the interactions with other players are essential for survival, teaming up should therefore not only bring protection from other players as many assume but help with survival against nature.
Personally I don't yet see this happening when I look at the community that already exists, half the criticism is beaten down with crap like "if you can't cope with it play hello kitty!" so it all comes down to the server communities and management, which can be a pain for whoever is hosting.
What Tsyolin said about the situation where you have everything and there is no way to continue without adding the motion of having to raid other people, I think is not how the game will be, because if it indeed would get that way, the larger part of the people would just stop playing it.
This is what you can see happening on many servers as this condition does apply in the current state of the game.
Alternatively to this "inevitable" outcome of crazed raiding where everyone becomes automatically a bandit, there could be increased rebuilding of the civilization with trade and complex crafting besides the fights between players. For sure that would open a lot of doors and fun for players, instead of beeing forced to hunter other people...
Also the survival could be made more difficult with the addition of more post-apocaliptic scenarios like earthquakes or heavy storms that can damage everything that is not built well enough...
There are in fact loads of ideas that exist to make this game one of the best in years, the PvP focus would just kill it without all the other aspects beeing diverse.
Edit: ...as a good example of statements made here is the post just previous to mine...
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I'm not sure how you interpreted the game description as not involving PvP. Or that it isn't even the primary focus, but simply put...you're wrong. Garry and the other devs have repeatedly made statements that make player interaction and freedom of those interactions to be the primary threats in the game. The goal is to survive, but this survival isn't environment exclusive. It is all inclusive, but the players will always be a bigger threat than anything they put into the game because players aren't scripted.
The focus of the game is that you should be fearful. If you aren't fearful of getting shot at because you're on a non-friendly fire server; or fearful of being raided because you're on a modded server with no explosives; you should at least be fearful of stupidity, because
it's you're own fault for letting that guy into your base that you jus met, or leaving your storage boxes out in the open without putting a door on your shelter.
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If you re-read my post carefully you may notice that I did not say anything about PvP beeing excluded from the game, I will therefore try to explain what I meant on that point in particular.
PvP is a very important game element, but not the focus of the game, that should be survival against all forces, split between the environment and the interaction with other players. Using the terms PvP/PvE does not really make sense when talking about any sandbox style game as each player decides in every situation again how to handle what happens.
I just think that the game itself should not drive the players to the point where he is limited to shooting other people in order to advance, or even play at all. Which is how I interpret the basic description given by the devs.
...otherwise you would have another ego shooter.
The difficulty is in designing the game in a way where the survival aspect forces you to make decisions on how to treat other players you meet in order to increase your chance of survival. If that means shooting the other person, avoiding each other or creating alliances is not really the question, the game itself should provide incentive for each of these options, based on your way of playing the game.
It may be down to the modding community to provide a lot of different playstyle options in the end that can satisfy the larger part of the people playing the game ;)
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The main point of this game is to sneak around people in pitch black, playing the duck tales nes moon theme
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@pryam: I can agree with some of your post, but as a primarily solo player, I have learned strategies to survive past KoS, or raiding, or banditry. Most of the players who complain about these things are rediculed simply because the solutions aren't difficult to learn. There will always be bullies, griefers, raiders, and KoSers in this game, it is the internet after all. There are ways other than the FPS style to play. Why I am not more polite when I respond to threads like this is because the solutions to the common problems these threads share are so painfully obvious that the poster is either extremely naive, too lazy to try something different, or just throwing a tantrum because they were bested at the game. In any of these cases, they either need to man up or quit the game, because the player base really isn't going to get any kinder.
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the environment threat is non existent atm.
theres also not really many ressource dumps, only ammo/c4 that gets wasted.
once u have raided some houses u have 1000 of food,raqdiation pills, medkits, ressources etc
makes the survival aspect against environment non existent.
there need to be more ressource wasting systems.
like animals destroying walls, that need to be repaired.
or food can get infested and spread through the chests on other food, so you need to hunt new meat.
Sprinting should also reduce your food amount alot.
thirst system
diseases+ medicine
cold system
weather effects that causes illness etc
maybe then and after some balancing the enviroment can get a bitch.
so right now its really only pvp atm.
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Just go blow a guy away with a shotgun.
You'll feel better.
~ C
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I also do agree on Pryam Post.
But i am missing one important point:
Why do we see the high amount of Killing or Raiding? Its simple.
After achieving your standard gear and a solid house there is currntly nothing to do besides from killing others and gather even more ressources. Don´t get me wrong, i know this is till in alpha early access, but still i think this should be pointed out.
So what this game does need in the future are events that are happening on server side which forces players to either work together or at least something that keeps them busy. The persons that have their houses + ressources need a reason to be afraid or just something "to do".
Currently it is looking like this:
- start the game, try to find food : Great so far
- Get your first house so that not all the loot is gone once you are killed: Great so far
- Make your house big enough to "survive" most raids : Great so far
- Collect all blueprints for Kevlar+M4 etc pp : Great so far
- But what now? What is your goal from here on? You can craft the important gear, your house is relatively safe. You can expand your house and make it bigger, ok, but thats it.
And thats exactly the point where the game needs to add more. I hope that the developers are thinking the same way, but i am not sure about it. So far i had great ~40hours of gameplay. But now im struggling. If i want to kill people i do play other games. So after reaching thte current "endgame" there is no reason for me to play anymore. If something like earthquakes, or radiation outbreaks or whatever would occur, this would keep me busy. Again, yes the game depends on the cummunity and there is no stroy but from my point of view that doesn´t mean that you can´t add any events that do change the environment you are living in.
So in summarize what i hope will be added by the developers is the following:
- Events like earthquakes
- Radiation outbreaks
- Possibly animals that are affected by radiation and get super big and will turn into enemys you can´t beat alone. Enemys you need to kill with several people because otherwise they will rape the whole server and destroy everything.
- Or thousands of enemys that start to run around the land and break into houses.
Events like that would force the people to play together. Of course there would be still raiders, but additionally there would be a reason to help people as well Help others -> Gain more man power so you possibly can survive the next catastrophic event.
Just my 2 cents.
So long
Stoke
Edited:
Also:
Did anyone of played a game like "the walking dead"?
Its a zombi game but its still a survival game and while playing the walking dead the characters where always low on ressources and lived in fear to lose these.
In Rust i hoped to get the same experience and i did! But just in the beginning.
It is far too easy to set a house and gather everything you want. On Germany DEV1 there is a huge guild and they simply have currently to fear NOTHING!
And that is ruining the current endgameplay. Its far to easy to get the ressources and keep them.
When playing walking dead the people did build houses but still they could lose there ressources everyday! They needed to stay focused and kept living in fear. And this part i am really missing in Rusts engame.
Again: Its not about the zombis, its about the fear to lose evrything you got and just survive.
In ust once you know all the blueprints you have nothing to fear.
You get raided? Doesn´t matter, its just not hurting enough because the rust world itself is too friendly.
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Honestly, I'm not trying to patronize, but maybe Minecraft is more your style. I played Minecraft for a long time. It's a fun game and you don't have to worry about raiders. Personally, Rust would be boring without the raiding and PVP.
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Killing and raiding is an integral part of the game. If you don't like it, this game may not be for you.
It's like claiming Minecraft is ruined because of the blocky graphics, or because CSGO is ruined because of all the hostages.
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Rust is not about PVP. It's not an open world Call of Duty. It's supposed to be about survival. Yes, there will always be bandits and KOS people but right now that sums up 95% of the player base when it should be a tiny fraction of that.
The problem is that there's no incentive to work together. There's no way to determine a person's reputation. There's no economy. There's no trade. There's zero benefit for working together outside of raiding purposes. The devs mention making towns but there's no reason to do it so nobody does. If this game wants to move outside of the realm of appeasing 12 year old internet trolls, it's going to need to make some major changes.
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Agreed.
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There is no coal in the game...? Charcoal =/= Coal
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Maybe you haven't encountered a server where people successfully formed a community, but I have seen it done. You are wrong that the only incentive to forming groups is for raiding. The game is pvp. Pvp not only being gunfights, but me getting resources, air drops, etc before you do. Pvp is me getting a base more secure than you can break into. Pvp is me making friends with more people on the server than you have. Or being sneakier than you, or more influential with a group of people. If you think this game was designed for us all to band together and gang rape bears into submission, you missed the game description entirely. Its about the myriad ways I am going to find to survive, and at the expense of you if I have to.
And although the game needs and will get more...it isn't natural disasters and more endgame content that it needs. Before I go on, I would love to see more content on par with whats available at the final tier currently; but it needs more mid-game content. Add earthquakes or whatever, maybe not quite as devastating as described, but to keep things i teresting.
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Exactly... The devs had high hopes that the game might somehow change the on-line paradigm from sole survivor or small bands to a more "community-based" one, but that is never going to happen simply due to real-world human social behaviors, and how that plays out in the anonymity of the Internet, and also basic technical impracticalities.
If the devs. are serious, they need to remove the vast majority of the guns and make combat a very dangerous business, where the attacker has a significantly large chance of being killed when being aggressive with other players. That's not to say that a PvP kill would be impossible, but just much riskier.
This in itself would drive away the CoD types in droves, which at this point are the bane of the game, and honestly, who really cares when Facepunch has already made more money than they ever dreamed, and it's an alpha!
The Facepunch devs. need to back away from the project and really ask themselves what they are trying to create here, and to be blunt, what kind of audience do they want to play the game? That may sound snobby, but it takes balls to push a unique vision instead of cowing to the masses. An artist can pander to the masses and be successful, or push what they feel is "right" and take success as it comes.
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Oh, I also forgot to mention that there's much more incentive to kill newer players than there is to kill the well established players. It's more fun and easy for the trolls to pick on the newbies and weaklings. That also needs to change. It certainly should be possible for people to randomly kill newbies but it should be discouraged through a game mechanic. Unfortunately, that goes against what the devs want to do. But that just means the game as it is will continue. It will just be a troll heaven and newbies will be scared away and the game will die before it gets out of beta.
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This game relies heavily on working in groups if I have 6 real life friends who play with me and we have 5-10 in game who are willing to work with us. Ive logged a fair bit of time and love it I'm more then will to help you all out on our server if you are disappointed with the game and show you some tips and tricks if you choose to work with us sorry you cant live in my house though lol already got 6 men there to much sausage. But in all honesty I can help you build your home near us you can raid with us and fight against the north, we have factions on our server north vs south then bandits who are their own people. Message me get our server info have fun with us this is a game that is played in numbers and it is a whole new world that way.
Edited:
Join our server my email is bassguitarfreak101@msn.com if you want we will get you all set up anyone else is more then welcome the server caps out at 100 and I don't care whose faction you join here north south or bandit but I feel you will enjoy it having a group to belong to. Just putting it out there.
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The complaint is "I got by face beat in for two hours, I've made no progress, and the whole thing has been very frustrating. I'm quitting."
Yeah, I feel superior to these guys, too. Yet the complaint is real. The first few hours in this game are harsh. The thing about being a wolf is that you need sheep to survive. If the sheep stop playing, wolves turn on each other, and usually the only people left are the hardcore, the best of the best. Yay for them! They can play by themselves!
I'd rather keep the sheep around for longer.
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The survival genre is fairly new and still has a long way to go. I consider Don't Starve one of the pioneers, as its far from perfect but it has still gotten many things right. You actually have to multitask and manage a ton of things in Don't Starve, such as how you are going to survive winter when it comes, how you are going to survive the inevitable boss battle, how you are going to be self-sustaining in regards to food, how do you keep your sanity up, etc. And when you die, you actually die (unless you invest in a few specific items, but that's a different topic).
No, zombies and animals aren't a threat. But that doesn't mean it will always be that way. One of the major faults of these enemies is they have no depth in their current execution. They spot you and run straight at you, making them an easy target. And since they are limited to melee range only, they give you plenty of breathing room.
I'd say Nether is the most advanced of these FPS-Survival games because the AI isn't limited to cliche expectations and they can make it do whatever they want. The AI is fairly threatening even in alpha because the AI can teleport, spit projectiles at you, alert even more AI, etc. And it's still in alpha, they surely have more things planned.
Actually, no. I feel buildings should be pretty end-game. If you make a building, that means you've managed to tame the environment.
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I've got over 100 hours into the game. My problem isn't the initial survival or difficulty. It the fact that the game actively encourages people to KOS and be total douche bags while having zero incentive to be nice or work together. It's bring every awful person on the internet into one place and driving off decent people who want to enjoy what would otherwise be a fun experience.
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Why not team up with other nice guys and work together to kill and raid the bandits and people who KoS?
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Because there are no nice guys.
Not literally of course, that's an exaggeration. But you get my point.
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Are you kidding? These forums are littered with carebears complaining about bandits and getting killed on sight, just seems none of you know any form of teamwork to work together for a common goal.
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Basically "Oregon Trail" is what they are looking for
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Primarily in response to zb01: Its the same story with every other MMO that wants to allow freedom. The designers expect people who DON'T WANT to compete in a tween e-peen contest to go out policing the game. These players are doing all they can to avoid the very situation and gameplay style that is supposedly the solution to being forced into that gameplay style...yeah, its as silly and confusing as it sounds. Basically its like asking pacifists to go to war and kill all the soldiers as a way to stop wars from happening.
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Exactly this. The nice guys end up all going on similar servers where they have the opportunity to be nice. It's usually servers with low populations. That's why I usually recommend people who are interested in the game to play on servers with less than 50 people.
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Sounds like its not your type of game then. This doesnt seem to be a game for pacifists and was never intended to be. You should be scared of people when you see them, not knowing if they are truely friendly or not. It is up to you to decide if you trust that person or if you even want to give them a chance. But maybe that person will be more paranoid and not care if you are friendly and shoot at you first, or maybe they simply want your resources. Go play a PvE server if thats how you feel though. If you dont want to organize a group to fight back why are you on a PvP server in the first place?
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Doing what exactly? Playing Rust-craft? Gathering up 1000's of resources that you'll never use or need? Killing zombies?
PvP is the most dynamic part of this game right now. It will change and improve, but as it stands, this is what we have.
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im sick of all these people saying "pvp ruins the game". PVP IS THE GAME! what would be the point to going out getting resources? building a house and killing zombies? im pretty sure after 5 days of just getting resources you could have a metal castle, then what? exactly, leave the server then repeat.
dont get butthurt when your raided then leave the server. instead you should get mad at the other players, build up some tension or lay low for awhile and stock up!
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You're exactly right. And that's the problem. People don't, as the devs say, sniff each other out to determine if they are worth trusting. Everyone just kills each other no matter what. No one builds towns. No one does anything.. except kill each other. Because that's all there is incentive to do. And there's not much else to do. There should be significantly more PVE things. There should be things to achieve that can only be acquired by working together as a team. There should be way more building options.
In the Civilization games, you could win by destroying your opponents but that wasn't the only way to win. You can also win by working together with your opponents through exchange of information and goods. Maybe there could be things you actively research as a party that unlock new technologies and new things to craft. I'd like to see player made "safe zones" where turrets are scattered throughout a town and fire upon literally anyone who fires a gun. Or maybe have lock boxes and the option to examine someone else's inventory as a "frisk" method for when people are entering an area that is "owned" and secured by another group of players.
Have special resource areas that can be dominated so trade is encouraged between major groups.
Edited:
PVP is NOT the game. Survival is. Those are two completely different things. The main object in real life is to survive. But I don't regularly see people shooting each other and stealing chicken. Same concept.
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ITT: Carebears whining about how mean PVP is ... while still playing on PVP servers.
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Artistic x 1
Zing x 13
Winner x 1
Friendly x 1