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Post #1I've changed my mind; shared doors aren't awesome, they broke the game.
Let me try and explain. At first I thought, man it's tedious with 5-6 people in my group to build a base where we can all access the loot room. Wouldn't it be amazing if we could all use one door?
It is amazing. It's incredible. It's awesome.
It's broken.
One of the key problems with rust is huge groups. I'm not talking 4-5 people, these groups are OK. But you've seen them, I've been apart of them on servers, those groups of 15 people with no life that in 3 days destroy your 200/200 server and make everyone leave. One of the biggest detractors from huge groups originally was base design, and how to share loot. Now me and all 9 of my friends all use the same doors and build a base that is practically unraidable. The rate at which 10 people can make metal doors and build upwards greatly surpasses the rate at which 10 people can farm and make C4. A base becomes practically unraidable in a matter of a day.
I was recently playing on a server with 5 or 6 such groups, after a few days, that were entirely untouchable even by each other group. So the groups just constantly raided little people, and the server is just littered with empty houses, after just a few days. Back in early steam rust days, my group of 5 people all had to build our own doors to the loot room, which led to complicated housing designs, which eventually led to seperate houses... With all seperate houses and seperate loot, we were individually raidable. That was a more fun time for the game than the mega-bases we see now that are unraidable after a few days.
With doorshare / combolocks and without the ability to travel quickly via vehicles outside the playable area, a server won't last more than ~5 days and continue to have a healthy growth rate. It's why so few servers are near cap anymore.
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I agree, there's no more counter play for big ass bases. C4 is unreasonably hard to make.
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C4 isn't unreasonably hard to make. That's a silly arguement.
Big giant groups have no problem wasting tiny groups with incredibly large doses of c4. The problem is they cannot touch each other, so the rich just get richer.
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Thats why the saying for rust is, "The richer get richer, the poorer get poorer"
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And shared doors made that problem worse, not better.
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You still easily can build up at every base... so you can raid 10men bases with like 5c4 if you are lucky and hit the lootroom...
So no base is unraidable :/...
But yeah... large groups are a big problem... but doorsharing has nothing to do with it... they even could build the large base without sharing doors...
So the builder simply can loot all stuff from their small bases...
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My bases are unraidable.
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hmm can u pm me what exactly u mean? So with unraidable u mean u cant get in loot room even with 1k c4? Lol
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The problem is not in the game design but in the mentality of all the players that want to play solo. People have to start to play smart instead of playing selfish.
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Im not gonna say "alpha" cause that is cliche. But 20 ppl give or take is about all the broom closet sized map can take in my opinion. If we ever get a dayZ sized map then I think you'll still have the big rich groups but are avoidable by the 3-5 groups and specially by the solos if you play it right.
the problem with a survival "reality" game is it mirrors reality so you have to play it as such I think. make friends or be reclusive. If your local militia overtakes a Wal-Mart, live in the damn woods and hit the small town grocers and dont get caught.
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U need to understand 1 thing, it's ALWAYS esier to play in big group, if they try to fix it somehow usually it means that solo players/small groups are fucked more then big groups...
And about door sharing, 1 pair of door for team also have weak sides. Just use ur brain and exploit it.
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Ur base isnt unraidable
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Nothing is unraidable, trust me :-)
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I build my bases out of the map, and you have to hack the game to even get near/inside it
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I run with one other person and we dominate the server by crushing out anyone who builds even remotely close to us. The 3 big groups on our server (avg 10-15 people expect one who has 30) are terrified of us because we will kill anyone and everyone naked or geared. This mentality in Rust gets you very far and is extremely beneficial.
We have used multiple stacks of Low Quality Metal just to build stairs up 15+ stories to get to a loot room. Handling buildings this size is not difficult as long as you carefully scope it out. What where they are the most in their base, listen for how many flights they go up before they stop, see how many live there, kill someone and see how long it takes them to come back down, etc.
Shared doors have just made it more fun for us. Now we can blow out doors all the way to the loot room, place a sleeping bag near their's and leave all the doors we added unlocked so they can come and go as they please, and we can suicide into their base, re-loot everything and leave when we please.
It has led to a LOT of frustration for these big groups and is hilarious for us.
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Emergent game-play. It's all about self-interest. So we started off this great experiment as solo-psychopaths, but people start to learn their self-interest is best served by some co-operation with others.
Now the groups are getting bigger and bigger, 'cos the self-interested (and Rust is no country for altruists) want to be in the biggest group. A safe bed, an M4 and the feeling of control are really all the wealth Rust has to offer in game.
Me? My base is totally raidable, but has never been raided. Hidden in plain sight, too small to be cared about. My loot comes from almost everyone else on the server being totally predictable, and me knowing where and when to strike. Just take a step back, and think about it.
The game is only broken if you don't have the imagination to figure out how to survive. And the point is survival, so the game cannot be broken. A strategy at odds with the reality of the game is what's broken.
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So, you hacked yourself to build it ?
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You are irrelevant.
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*snip*
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shared doors have only 10,000 possible combinations (At most) before they are entirely useless, rendering the unraidable a super happy loot farming time for you and your family, with the added bonus of confusing the heck out of the people that realise their unraidable base was emptied without the use of C4.
I'm seriously surprised no one's built a macro for it.
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I play on an official server and i would have to say this isn't an issue atm. The fact that c4 is buggy ( it hits the wrong wall,crates,stairs, etc ) and the hacker issue needs to be fixed first in order to see big bases growing up. For the past 3 days, we haven't been able to log in and play on us east 1. We get instant killed, through the walls, while we're inside of our home.
My friend and i have been playing in rad towns and we have no issue fighting people and getting rich. I think its a matter of how good you are in melee range.
I'm sure you can find the common 4 digits numbers on the internet and try those manually but making a macro would be cheating.
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Oh don't get me wrong, I don't agree with macro'ing it at all, and most people could probably take a stab at guessing common numbers, I'm just genuinely surprised that since pin locks went live, there's been no reports of mysterious damage free raids and links to dodgy macro scripts.
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They should had a pick lock that costs 100 metal frag and has a 20% chance of opening doors
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That's a game mechanic that doesnt survive much of a mathematical analysis. If you put just 5 doors between your loot room and the outside, the pick has just 0.03% chance of success. However, the naked guys who can only build a 1x1 would get robbed every 10 minutes and never be able to progress.
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Your right, even placing foundations around your house and putting pillars in the middle of them doesn't help. You can just build stairs next to one, and build up that pillar so you can jump on it and place C4 on the walls to gain entry. If you build those pillars high above your base, then you can't do that, because the fall damage.
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Assuming similar resources and equipment, a group of 10 should beat a group of 5. Doors don't matter much in that kind of numbers game.
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only 1 thing to say
ALPHA
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Brilliant, purely brilliant. Ive toyed with the idea of dropping a bag next to theirs, but never had the idea to put unlocked doors so they think its still theirs. You sir are a king of the cruel
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I love the psychotic mentality of the group players who think they should own everything.
Wrong.
Every post in this thread is extremely dumb. I love how people don't even play this game long enough to attempt discussing it and just run their mouth all day on facepunch.
Come back when you have the level of understanding I do then your posts won't seem so unintelligent when I read them.
"The game sucks if you lack the imagination" it's funny when this is said by people with no intelligence and imagination. What's the word I'm looking for? Hypocrite?
10/10 would discuss again
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Amazing that so few people understand this basic concept! If two equal teams started on opposite sides of the map, one with the intent to raid, the other with the intent to "turtle", the turtles will always win. Airdrops might flip the balance occasionally to the raiders, but the bottom line is that a well-designed base could easily confound the most determined raiders.
Now, this is assuming that the turtles find the best possible area to build a base since undulating terrain can quickly thwart a good base design.
I guess the bigger questions is; why have one gigantic base? Gen. Patton observed that any kind of large base is a pointless exercise (Maginot Line), where dispersed and forward operating bases are the best solution.
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this entire forum is people who have played for like 50 hours and think they are smart
all these posts are so fucking stupid its making me RAGE now i will go abuse people on my server
fucking retards fuck you all seriously you're so fucking stupid it disgusts me
Edited:
WRONG stfu
Edited:
OMFG PEOPLE ARE SO FUCKING OUT OF TOUCH WITH THE ISSUES IN THIS GAME IT WILL NEVER GET FUCKING FIXED UR ALL JUST A BUNCH OF IDIOT GROUP ABUSER FUCKING MORONS WHO DONT HAVEA FUCKING CLUE ABOUT THE INS AND OUTS OF THIS GAME AND U NEVER FUCKING WILL
SHUT. THE. FUCK. UP.
Edited:
OMFG PEOPLE ARE SO FUCKING OUT OF TOUCH WITH THE ISSUES IN THIS GAME IT WILL NEVER GET FUCKING FIXED UR ALL JUST A BUNCH OF IDIOT GROUP ABUSER FUCKING MORONS WHO DONT HAVEA FUCKING CLUE ABOUT THE INS AND OUTS OF THIS GAME AND U NEVER FUCKING WILL
SHUT. THE. FUCK. UP.
Edited:
SOLO PLAYERS ARE SELFISH? OH MY FUCKING GOD FUUUUUUUUCK YOUUUUUUUUU U FUCKING RETARDED PIECE OF TRASH BITCH LITTLE CUNT ILL FUCKING SMASH UR BRAIN ALL OVER THE SIDEWALK
(User was banned for this post ("Flaming / chillout" - Craptasket))
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I call BS on this one... Nice theory, but anyone else can open the door and walk right in, so they owners would know that something is amiss right away, and if you spent all the effort to get to the "goodies" why would you not take anything at that time, and if you did, again, the owners know the game is up and destroy all your doors.
The whole post sounds a bit like a fantasy of "wouldn't it be neat", but never actually occurred.
Edited:
Other than being a useless piece of shit that can do nothing but swear in an otherwise polite forum, why don't you enlighten us on your brilliant observations about the "issues" with this game?
I'm sure you extraordinary intelligence and poise will amaze us all, or maybe it's just that you are a complete and utter asshole that would offer no net loss to the world if you did not exist.
FYI, a mere three weeks ago your first post was: Wow! You clearly have such an incredible insight into this game in three weeks it must be amazing, or no, I'll stick with the complete asshole concept.
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You're the Rust police apparently, just here to shit on everyone's party. :)
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Your complaint is that in a survival game they added additional tools to survive, but other groups took advantage of it more than you?
Nothing is stopping you from building separate houses. Combo locks don't force you to build easily raidable bases together with your friends. Come on man.
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I got on a server that was freshly wiped as of a few seconds ago. Literally within an hour of the server being a group of 2 people had ran through a few rad towns, had an M4, ammo, several pieces of kevlar, and c4. They proceeded to get an airdrop which gave more c4, base building materials, and an airdrop flare.
They went out into the middle of nowhere, threw the smoke flare, and got 3 boxes dropped on their heads in which they got more c4, more base supplies, and 2 more smoke flares.
They threw down the other 2 smoke flares and got explosives, and more c4.
2 hours into the server being up and there was a group with 8 c4.
in 2 hours you can't go from nothing to a base that can survive 8 c4.
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Wow, you just summed up the single biggest problem in the game as it is...
See: http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1348908
To sum up, far too much emphasis on loot. Maybe they'll fix it, maybe not.
Also, I think your server admin might be screwing with the loot tables. The official severs almost never have such items in loot boxes or zombies, it's usually pretty mundane stuff, maybe a mid-range weapon, but that's about it.
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ok. so your argument was very well written. and you make a good point regarding super bases (hopefully that won't really become the norm).
however, i just have to say, first it's "We want door sharing. Getting C4 and raiding is too easy, everyone is doing it." and now somehow we've got to "Door sharing is bad. Getting C4 and raiding is too hard, no one can do it."
So overall I disagree, I think C4 and raiding is far too easy and common, and that buildings currently offer way too little protection. But I do see what you're saying about the large group super bases.
Hopefully, this will lead to
A) Super groups raiding each other, as it would be more worth it then raiding little wooden shacks of noobs with 10-15 people
B) Betrayal and "inside" jobs, i.e. splintering of the super groups. Obviously wouldn't happen with 5-6 IRL friends, but a big 15+ community of internet people? Yeah someone's going to crack, and disappear with the goods. :) should be interesting
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this was a thread i started few days ago that didnt go far, talks about delaying how fast you get stuff check and tell me your opinion on it.
http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1353357
thanks
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This is already happening on my server, and it's pretty cool. Actually the two biggest clans declared peace and are working together to attack the hackers, lol. Which is pretty cool.
As for betrayal and inside jobs, one of our guys was recruiting a noob, gave him the codes to the house. Guy went in and cleaned out the boxes. It was kinda funny in a way. Same guy, also had a sleeping bag in the house that no one squashed, so the next day he spawned in the house....he couldn't get out though since the door code was changed, but initially people are freaking out, as the guy started talking smack over chat about being in our base, but eventually we realized he couldn't get out. But again, it was kinda funny. Gotta be careful and thorough, lol.
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Interesting, but time really isn't the big issue, it's the leapfrogging of the resource gathering side of things, as well as any sense of linearity in crafting "skill". Find and M4 and a research kit as a caveman, and now you too can make one!
Sure, a caveman can wield an M4 he found, but he sure as hell shouldn't be able to make one with ease. The "partial blueprints" concept that's underway makes it harder, but it doesn't address the basic issue that prerequisites should be required.
Also, if I prefer to gather efficiently/stealithly and spend my resources on research, I should be able to work my way up the tech tree without "lottery" loot boxes or airdrops. (this is a huge one, and a major imbalance in the game now)
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