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Post #1
To prevent ridiculous spawn abuse, players should be able to place a sleeping bag down once. If they die, they spawn back at their sleeping bag, but at that point it disappears. They would then need to craft another bag and place it in order to spawn back at a bag. This would help prevent the spammers that raid bases and just lay their bags down near the building they're raiding which is an abusive tactic.
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You fail to understand the concept of the game. In Rust, there are no rules. You use whatever tactics you can to succeed as you see fit. In fact, Garry encourages such activity. Read some of his interviews. Also, if you follow Trello, they are adding beds that are likely to be stronger than the standard sleeping bag.
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Doesnt it force you to spawn somewhere else after a couple deaths anyhow?
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If you die so many times with other people in the area you spawn somewhere else except your bag and have to wait to spawn back.
Plus people will just make a storage unit full of beds, have tons of cloth on them to make more, etc. There will always be ways to abuse this system.
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Nice! So using the duplication glitch is legit! It's in the game afterall, so it must be legit!
...I'm pretty sure his intentions were not to be able to post up a continuous spawn location outside of the base you want to raid.
I agree, but this would "help" alleviate the abuse of a clearly flawed system.
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Yea but this could also be countered by simply bringing along a crate next to your sleeping bag, taking out a new one and placing it down. Would be easier if they just got rid of the sleeping bags and just made beds that can only be placed on foundations etc
EDIT: Also this is true.
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What are you talking about? You mean the ability to place more than one sleeping bag? When was it ever said that placing more than one sleeping bag was a glitch? Many people have multiple bases and stashes throughout the map. You spawn in order of placement with a 5 minute cooldown after each spawn. Placing bags outside of a raid location is a perfectly legit strategy.
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A foundation could be brought along as well and placed outside a base you're raiding. Maybe the game needs a timer before you can place another bag. Either way, it's a cheap and abusive tactic to place quick spawn points around a base you're raiding.
And you do spawn away from your bag if you're killed twice fast enough. But normally that can be avoided by a short pause before you raid again. I'm just tossing out ideas, because it's a cheap tactic that clearly wasn't intended.
Edited:
I was illustrating sarcasm. You claim to be able to use whatever strategy you see fit. There's a duplication glitch. People can duplicate guns, ammo and supplies over and over. It's in the game (clearly a glitch) but according to your logic I should be able to do this. Placing cheap spawn points outside of base you're raiding is clearly an UNINTENDED consequence of the spawn system. If you fail to see that as an abuse, then we can't really have a discussion.
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Whats the point in having a mobile, replaceable spawn point if not to use it in that exact function. I dont think you understand the term 'clearly'. clearly sleeping bags were intended to be placed down and picked back up with ease. As in when you are temporarily in an area you suspect you could die in. If the sleeping bags could only be placed on foundations, then 'clearly' their intention was not to have a mobile spawn point but relegate spawning your home only
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Well, since they fixed item duping I didn't really think that was relevant so I assumed you meant something else. There are clear exploits that the team has been working on but this was never once brought up as an issue because it isn't one. There is also no method to stop it as described earlier. I could simply build a base near your base with a case full of sleeping bags and drop them each respawn. Again, it is a tactic that you need to figure out how to counter. Garry has stated that he wants to add more focus towards base defense so maybe these new base items will help alleviate your issue. However, I don't think anyone think this is an exploit or a glitch aside from you. It is a tactic, a clever one at that. You need to figure out how to counter it. Welcome to Rust.
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I think a short term fixes could be.
1. Increase cost to 45 cloth.
2. Increase craft time to 1 minute
3. Cap number of bags at 10.
I think long term fixes could be
1. Only Allow 1 sleeping bag at a time.
2. Allow players to create a new object in houses a "Spawn totem" that acts as a spawn location in the house for themselves and anyone they give access to it "bind" to it. Each "respawn" cost 10 cloth, it can store up to 1k cloth inside, but needs to be refilled. Max 25 binds total. The object can cost 250 wood, 250 fragments, and 250 cloth. It can be destroyed but it has the durability of a shelter. If it is destroyed the cloth remaining inside drops as loot.
3. A control panel to choose your spawn point. Let players name them so they can sort them.
4. A mobile "Spawn Totem" like a sleeping bag can be created lets call it a TENT. It cost 250 cloth, and like a fire uses the cloth as fuel for spawns. 20 cloth per re-spawn. It can be destroyed and has the durability of a wood barricade. It has a decay rate of 1 cloth per minute. When it runs out of cloth it despawns. It can not be refilled. Craft time 5 minutes. Their can also be a leather version, that has more durability, and allows twice the number of spawns. Unlike cloth version it would be dark in color instead of bright white.
Additional changes to improve server performance dramatically.
1. Each player can only place 1 shelter at a time. If they place another one, they get a warning message the old one will be destroyed.
2. Each player can only place 1 sleeping bag, warning message if they try to place an additional one. Sleeping bags despawn after 24hrs.
3. Each player can only place 10 wood barricades at a time. Placing additional ones will automatically despawn old ones.
4. Each player can only have 3 campfires at one time, not placed inside a structure.
5. Add a "SUPPLY" box that can be inside of gate ways. If the supply box is full of wood, all attached spike walls are automatically kept at full health not decay. At a rate of 1 wood per wall per two hours. This will eliminate the server and client detecting spike wall decay. It will also give an incentive for players to destroy gate ways, instead of just the wood gate. Make spike walls placed without a supply box decay after 24hrs.
6. Increase decay of world spawned campfires, barricades, and spike walls not attached to a gate. To go along with changes. 6hrs-12hrs before completely gone.
7. nuke all resources, and animal spawns rcon command. This will destroy all current resource spawns and force the spawning of a new set. After a server has been up long enough, resources spawning undermap, in rocks, zombies glitched ext stacks up. This is a short term fix that will reduce the effects of that.
8. Disallow structure building, or object building inside of RAD zone towns. Or increase the decay 10 fold.
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It's going to be a "fun" issue for the team to balance.
As Kryptyx said, sleeping bags are intended to be mobile, they are mobile, and there's not really anything that can be done to counter that. Here's a few examples of possible solutions and why they won't work:
Sleeping bags need a foundation to be placed - Game breaking (prevents sleeping bags in wooden shelters, discouraging new players) and just means a raider brings a foundation with them.
Sleeping bags can only be used inside a structure - Restricts aspects of the game and just means a raider brings enough wood for a wooden shelter with them.
Sleeping bags can't be placed with x distance of a building - Arbitrary and pointless. If X is small, it will just force the raiders to run for a few seconds to get to the house. In X is large enough that the run is annoying, it effectively turns into a structure detecting "radar".
No clue what the solution should be.
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There is a long cooldown for one sleeping bag death, if they place two down they will have two attempts at coming back. Unless they have something to re-gear at though, they are running back with a Rock. It is not an over powered tactic, Get over it.
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Clearly, the mobile spawn point was intended for the purpose of mobility since players are constantly moving to different bases. Clearly, it wasn't intended so people could post up outside of a base to raid and continuously spam an assault. It's not a tactic; it's an exploit.
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Clearly, you fail to understand the concept of this game.
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I never said it was over powered. It's a nuisance and an exploit. If I kill you while you're raiding my base, you should be penalized. You shouldn't simply get to respawn right at the base you're raiding.
I think you guys are assuming I'm a care bear. I disagree. If you fail at raiding my building, you should be penalized. The fact that you don't want consequences for dying while raiding my base makes you the care bear. You should man up and take your medicine.
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There are consequences for dying while raiding your base, I have to respawn naked at my bag outside your base. You have the advantage of replacing broken walls, taking my guns and C4, hell you can even put a shelter on top of my bag trapping me. I'm sorry you still don't understand the concept of the game.
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There's a benefit for insta-spawning outside of a base you're raiding: running back inside and trying to collect your dropped items. I fully understand the concept; you don't. You should have to work in order to take another stab at raiding my base. Insta-spawn in the easy button and you just want to push it.
Furthermore, trapping sleepers / bags is a form a griefing that is also UNINTENDED. Quit acting like everything implemented is intended; it's not. Garry would be the best coder in the entire world if every conceivable concept was intended.
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There's nothing wrong with sleeping bags. I have one in my bases, and some backups hidden in the area around it as well. I dont want to spawn and spend an hour getting back to base raiders figure out how to get in while I sleep.
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So you're saying that people who live on the opposite end of the map should have a harder time raiding you than someone who lives next door simply because of the sleeping bag situation you described? It seems a majority of people who have commented in this thread have agreed that it is fine as is and no one seems to have a solution that wouldn't impede the game in some other way. So why not just accept the fact that you don't understand the game and its concepts and move on? There are no rules, that is the beauty of Rust. If you want to grief someone you can do it. Garry said himself the purpose of the game is to survive. You survive however you see fit and you are free to do as you want in the world. If the sleeping bag issue was an "exploit" or "unintended" you would see a mention of it on Trello, and you don't. This is a sandbox environment, not the Sims. Stop trying to add rules to a game that has none. If you want your own set of rules, rent a server and post them.
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the benefit is short lived. Every spawn you are naked, unless you brought gear with you but that is still a limited supply. If the person attacking took the time to plan and prepare for the attack, why should they be penalized because you want to be able to hide behind your walls in safety. Is it also an exploit to single fire the M4? because its an automatic weapon so CLEARLY it was intended to be fired automatically. Does it make sense you can use a hatchet to harvest stone or a pick axe to harvest wood? Clearly hatchets were intended for wood and pick axes for stone. The complaint about spawning at a sleeping bag is just a lame cop out of really trying hard to defend your base. You complain that the attack should really have to work in order to get inside. Well why the hell dont you have to work to keep them out? its not an exploit. an exploit would be killing a player whos body is clipping through a wall. an exploit would be hiding a sack in a furnace or box so it cant be accessed. Is it an exploit to use a large box as a step ladder to jump over spike walls? Exploiting a flaw in the coding is wrong, using an item with its current physics and parameters is not.
Disagree x 8
Dumb x 2
Agree x 1
