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Post #1
Hello Yamiino here,
If you are a Rust Server Administrator you will be able to keep reported cheaters/hackers out of your server by using a community-driven ban list. Let the witch hunt begin! (as someone said on the other topic lol). It will be fun I swear, when you see those people's faces QQing they did nothing and then seeing the well fundamented report with them flying around the map and killing 50 players in less than two seconds with the force like Neo (well probably not like that but you get it).
This by no means is an ultimate system to clear your server from cheaters/hackers, the usage of the list (when available) is your decision, I can't do much, but whatever I can do to help is better than doing nothing. This system is just an alternative of players wanting to share their REAL bans to help the non-cheating / non-hacking community have a fair play. As the advantage obtained by these programs is gamebreaking, so while FacePunch works on these we can start this up as a community-based solution, being it temporal or permanent, it does not really matter as long as we keep it fair for those that want to keep it fair. Lets hope FacePunch solves these issues, however as from my MMO experience, cheaters and hackers will always roam around, being alpha, beta, final release.
FacePunch, I sent a ticket asking if it was ok to develop the website, pretty much got a copy-paste message with no reply at all asking to send a new ticket. If you have time please review it if it's ok I will keep working on it, the ticket is MAD56RHP9KKKYC2C94.
You can find Rust Ban List at: http://rust.yamgames.com
How it works: http://rust.yamgames.com/how-it-works/
Code of conduct: http://rust.yamgames.com/code-of-conduct/
My twitter: @yamgames, will be using the hashtag #RustBL and #RBL depending on message length.
If you find an error please send me a private message through this forum. Please don't post it on twitter for Chocolate's sake, as it could open up exploits or break the system. I mean yes I want you to try to break it and inform me about errors you find, but not in the hackery way lol.
Systems to test:
Suggestions and comments:
- If it's a comment or a simple suggestion send it on twitter, or here whatever :P
- If it's a report please send a private message.
- If it's a big suggestion or a big comment, post it here xD don't want to deal with messages that look like telegrams lol.
Change Log: A change log will be created on the site, but I will keep this post updated as well.
Date: 22/Jan/2014
Some funny data:
- Rust Ban List has obtained over 1.5k page views (from where?! LOL I mean, there were like 5 public pages), yet it has not been released.
- Most visits come from USA and Argentina.
- USA users are looking for Rust Ban List, while all of Argentina is looking for PS3 Games, XBOX Games, Beauty tutorials, and idk what else O_o (don't ask me, that's what I see on google lol)
- 81 unique Steam IDs have been stored, 19 of those are VAC banned users.
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So much win, global blacklisting to punish them :)
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Sweet! I can't wait to start editing other players' names into videos.
And I can't wait to start changing my Steam name to other players' names!
There's no way this could fail.
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I can't wait to suspend your account :D
PS: If you are not a server admin, you won't be able to ban/report anyone ;) and if you are and you do it as you mentioned the only thing you will get is a "Sorry, your account was suspended on June 6th 6666, Reason: Dat video editing"
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Good thing I am.
Sure - good luck validating that!
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And so it begins. Lol.
Anyway back to the topic. Updated the first post with the link used for testing entries, again this is just a test at the moment. So don't use any information found in the website for now.
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Tell you the truth, I like the idea of the banlist, but it won't work for me because I'm not going to spend my hours editting videos just so 5 other people can confirm what I have seen with my own eyes.
I just don't have the hours in the day to do that... so hopefully I can just download your confirmed list of hackers and also keep banning the 10-20 a day I ban myself, because I visually confirm they are hacking.
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Not familiar with how the system works, but that guy is right. What would stop someone from just editing the video or changing their names to get somebody banned?
Seems like ridiculous lengths to go to, but considering how many hackers there are, I'm sure people will try. So how could you actually tell?
And if you use the community to help dtermine if somebody has been wrongly banned, how can you take some people's word over video evidence? Because on the flip side of that, a legit hacker could get banned and have a bunch of buddies vouch for him.
Maybe I didn't read it clearly.
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This will be abused so much by butt hurt admins..
The hacks in current Circulation guaranteed are aimbots, ESP and Teleporting...
*Teleport user in air*
*Take Screenshot*
Look hes hacking *Give screenshot and steamid*
*User gets headshot*
Look hes hacking
*User looks at a wall*
Must be ESP *Screenshot* Ban.
Like the most obvious hacks are patched or being patched so everything else is at the discretion of the admin.. And every other community has to take their word for it...
This is basically a Poor man's version of VAC..
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You say only server admins can ban people... What if a person who owns a server just adds someone to this global list they dont like much.
To many flaws in ur system.
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The one chief flaw of this; badmins
That flaw being chief because, a badmin doesn't even have to publicly known as a badmin to be badmin then use this list to their advantage.
look at this scenario;
badmin gets killed by random dude while playing. random dude was playing legit, was not hacking. badmin gets hurt about it to the point he not only bans random dude from his server, but adds random dude's name to this list, and never speaks a word about it (i.e. never brags about banning random dude, never mentions random dudes name in global chat, etc). now random dude, who is entirely innocent is banned on a boat load of servers who are using this global blacklist, even though he did nothing wrong. all because of one badmin.
Of course there are many other flaws to the system, but that right there is the one that is going to cause way too many headaches, from false positives, to badmins to who knows what I guarantee a lot of innocent people will get on that list in some fashion. Sure you could have someone review each and every name but last time I looked at the server browser there was around 20,000+ people playing in my local prime time, assuming that's the middle of an average you could be looking at 50,000+ or better people to review. And considering the game is selling like hotcakes there's a ton of people, with more new every day, so some kind of review system seems less and less likely for each individual user on that list.
So yea, too many flaws in the system. It's much appreciated someone would take the time to do something like this but as stated, even with the best intentions the system can be gamed too easily.
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Woa so many questions haha, okay here it goes one by one.
Fair enough, yes the list will be public and will be updated automatically when a confirmed ban gets in or when a denounce is accepted a ban will be lifted, it will all depend on how many times you update your list / week/month to keep it updated.
Edit - Suggestion: May I suggest live streaming? You can simply highlight a video and it will automatically upload it to your youtube channel (speaking of twitch.tv), takes less time than editing and rendering a video :)
I never said bans were permanent did I? That's why there will be a denounce system, that's why the bans are not applied when the admin adds an entry and requires people to vote for it. If the administrator uploaded a fake video (if they can actually sync correctly a video to fool atleast 5 other members) then the user will be able to denounce the entry, after reviewing (community) the evidence the ban will be lifted or will remain. As mentioned a single member can only get 5 false bans maximum, however, if users report this "admin", which in this case would be a liar. He/she will end up banned from the system, and the ban of the reported user will be lifted.
Note that people can put input in every review, if you know the reporter is a "badmin", call it out, they can't do anything against that. It's a fair play for Admins and Legit Players. What would happen if there was a list of "bad apple" admins made public? I could do that, it would affect their reputation as well as their server for administration power abuse. That would indeed be fun to do.
Proofs must speak by themselves, a single picture is easy to be edited, I mean... I am a graphic designer. But that's when the community participates, it is inviting not only admins to report bad players, but also inviting players to report bad admins by speaking up on the comments area.
No cheating proofs = entry being rejected by the community, as mentioned on the first post, if a user reports the admin that added him/her and the entry had no documented proofs, simply I have to edit a single number to apply a suspension on the administrator's account. And not only that, as voters are also logged people that voted for a false ban will also be affected by this back stab feels wave.
There will be many doing this, but I am already anticipating what they could do. Thought of the images / fake videos that's why I am making a denounce system. Oh and also works for other admins, if an admin is suspended due to rejected entries (and they were well documented) those who affected this user will end up being suspended.
An administrator hates cheaters/hackers as much as legit players hate admins abusing their commands. The system is in no ones side, I just chose to let admins register as they are easier to controll than allowing everyone mass flood the report system.
There are like 1000 players / 1 admin, so yeah I rather look up what 1 admin is doing over 1000 players (estimate, exagerated, not real numbers.)
Hope this answered all your questions, if you have suggestions please let me know.
Note that the system at first will be a bit of a chaos, but as we start purging bad administrators adding false bans we will end up with a nice ban list.
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Sorry but I am not going to write a essay in response.. so my opinion and others are saying this can and will be abused.
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This likely will be abused. The last project behind it was pretty screwed in no time with legitimate players being reported.
To top that, honestly... it doesn't collect information via a plugin on servers, etc. So, to be truthful... this will be abused to all hell and back.
If you really want to make this, wait until they incorporate some sort of anti-cheat other than VAC that actually detects cheat signatures and bans instantly. When that's done, make an API hook into the actual file that reads it, and updates it to a website hosted database like PBBANS does. That is about the only time it will realistically... work at all.
Other than that, no offense, but it's too early for this. Glad you're attempting, but those are some tidbits to think about before you notice that legitimate players come running to you going "WTF IS THIS SHIT?!"
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This will be great. With children having access to credit cards, spawning massive bases, and then banning people who mention it and then adding them to the banlist, there is no way this could fail. Hackers will buy Rust again and again and again and again, but they'd NEVER think to admin a server to get people blacklisted from a massive amount of community server for the kicks. I mean, they're here for the game, not to troll people or some shit. This will never go wrong. Definitely won't be abused. And there's no way that spending $20 a month on a server wouldn't make you qualified to identify hackers better than VAC or other anti-cheating programs. There will definitely be no instances such as those had with Froxer where he livestreams his entire performance and is still banned by admins for hacking based on faulty accusations that can be proven false by simply looking at his stream.
The great thing about this survival game, is you don't just have to survive the mechanics, hackers, and players, now you have to survive the admins.
Also, please do well to mention what servers are participating in this fuckfest. I need to know which servers to avoid.
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Being honest, there's no ultimate ban system, Valve is doing ok, but takes a long time to apply the bans, I mean they banned people from using Open Broadcast Software (OBS), which is a streaming tool. Yep, anyway a snippet could be created, but what would stop people from forcing it to ban legit players. I know this can be abused, hence I will be monitoring it and am asking for suggestions to improve it. Else I'd not develop it :P there are several ways to report abuse of the system, I will look it up and act accordingly, but for the most part it will be a community-driven system.
Hackers/cheaters are all around the place, you can't trust anyone in the internet, I mean I'm pretty sure hackers/cheaters already saw this post and are trying to make it drop.
How many reports do you want to have as false bans, 10%? from 100 reports thats 10, and from those 10 reports the most part will be easy to detect and proofs need to speak for themselves. An administrator must be really bored to really take the time to try to create a false ban, and if it happens - which indeed will - he/she will end up being reported, reviewed and suspended if it's true. And yeah if I happend to review someone's false bans, just expect the worse. The 5 false ban limitation was just a nice thing to do to let people alive if they have mistakes while reporting someone (which should be reported by whoever added it in order to delete the entry asap).
Now, please read how it works before commenting. Yes it can be abused, but it will not be permanent. Let's see who gets tired first, hackers purchasing new servers/accounts or a script that updates numbers.
I know people will add legit players, their bans will not be permanent as long as they report them. However the admin that added the report will be suspended from the system. You just actually gave me an idea for another check for registration verification, haha - *gets it down on my notes*
As a general comment, again, this tool is an optional system to use. I believe in the future the false bans will start dropping in number as the "badmins" start getting cleaned out of it. It is by no means the Valve killer and will not substitute your bans, actually you should keep your own list and just add these (when it goes live) if you find the need of it.
Being honest, there are admins that ban players that speak different language, we don't want those bans in the list, you can do whatever you want in your server, but don't come to this system and try to troll because the only one that is going to be trolled is you :P
I will get down on my to do list the suspended admins list, since the registration system requires you to link your server IP and your steam profile, you don't really want to appear on the list :P
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I'm not worried about appearing on the list. I've had my steam account since my mid teens and am now in my mid twenties. I've yet to be banned on any steam game I have.I have been accused of hacks, however. All I can see, is that if Froxer can get banned so easily so can I. It's one of the reasons I quit playing Combat Arms all together. I'd regularly be banned from the servers until it wasn't fun anymore. I am not an amazing player, but when I see a survival game with FPS features where the FPS can ruin while the survival/farming can make gain I see a problem. I see a lot of people getting shot in the head, calling hacks, and the admin bans them. I don't have the computer to capture everything I do and I really have no intentions of doing so.
To me, this only sounds like trouble. There are a lot of good admins and I'll stick on their servers, but I've known a lot of bad admins and I don't want it bleeding over. I've known some tournament level players before and unless you really check them out and know what's going on you'd think they were hacking. If you know America's Army 2, I had a friend on there with a 5:1 KDR. Him getting banned was very normal. He even saved some screen shots from when he killed a hacker who was subsequently banned by punkbuster for having an aimbot. This guy never was. Some people are good, and I see a lot of admins not knowing the difference between hacks and aimbots and not following up. This seems more akin to a witch hunt where I can play the steps right to be claimed legitimate in the community to only make bad calls or out those who I don't like later.
I'll probably never get myself banned, but this just seems full of flaws regardless of the systems set in place. This in the point of VAC. It detects the modified files within the games' folders and bans them. They have an aimbot? They will be banned. They have a speed hack? They will be banned. What this boils down to is people growing too impatient in an alpha and going way too hard to prevent hackers. I hate those people too, they ruin the game, but I see this being detrimental to Rust's future if it grows too popular. What happens when you have thousands of admins signed up? How are you going to verify them all? How is every individual banned hacker going to be checked? VAC does this with an automated system. I don't believe that you guys have an automated system capable of verifying every banned player to check if they are hacking.
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When thousands of admins sign up not even 20% of them will be "badmins" as the other 80% will have eyes on the reports, not only me and the backend system working. Everything done by everyone is public, that's the beauty of the system, you will be able to see 99.9% of the information that is required (0.1% for vote results being shown at the end of the voting :P). As mentioned before "bad apples" will, in time, be in a way or another removed from the system, either automatically or by people reporting X user/admin. As mentioned before, if there were 100 reports from which 10% were false bans, atleast half of that will not have enough proofs and will be easily detected by other admins.
In rare cases where a report PASSES BOTH FILTERS, when the admin adds the report and voting happens and when the user fills a denounce and a result is shown. Then, I will look into it if the result was not convincing by any of both parties.
Valve has automatic systems, yes, but automatic systems once they have decided they require human input in order to rever it.
Here, there's an automatic system as well, however, there's more human input in it making it having diferent results and not just a "X" was detected - I don't care if it's not a cheating program - VACBanned! - example can be found here.
And in the lesser cases where a player or an admin has been suspended/banned for no real reason, then that's when I come in.
I'm not saying that it is bullet proof, but we are all people and can review and decide according to proofs submitted and community's input about the matter.
And being honest, I don't think there's an MMO that does not have cheaters/hacks/bots even on full release. They try to clear them up, but I think there's nothing better than eyes reporting.
Not to mention Google, google is a hell of a spy, I already found a cheater/hacker on this topic posting :P and nothing is preventing users / admins from asking in the server of the reporter what happened. It requires people to actually care of the problem more than just sit back and do nothing and just cry about it on the forums. Step up and take action, it's better to have 10-20-100 banned cheaters/hackers and 1-2-10 players false banned that can defend themselves with the system in 10-20-100 servers, than having 10-20-100 non banned cheaters/hackers ruining 1000-20000-50000 other player's game experience.
Atleast that's what I think, hope you share my thoughts. Also, nothing is preventing administrators to filter false bans from their servers if someone in their server is trusted and was added to the list, though it would be expected to be reported to remove it from the list.
It seems we don't agree, but that's ok as it is an optional thing. I think people are using hacks because there's no real consequence about it until Valve bans them, which can take a long time. You are free to use it or leave it, there's no way to find out if it will work or not if it has not even been tested yet. I don't expect the 4,664 servers that are online with people right now to be registered and use this list. I by no means will allow such numbers to be reached as it would get out of hands.
But as I verify admins, I can decide who can join in and who doesn't, it's my system anyway. People will be free to use the ban list generated or they can simply ignore it, as I will try to keep the confirmed bans as that, confirmed bans.
I respect your opinion, and you do have some points I agree on, however, I am not stopping this proyect due to some users abusing the system if they can be cleared out automatically or manually.
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What kind of drugs do you do? On popular games, hundreds of hackers can be reported an hour. You're going to properly verify all of them? Everyone is going to? It's not going to happen. And there doesn't seem to be anything stopping abuse apart from your words. I wouldn't be surprised if you were trolling at this point. Either that, or you have no realistic idea about what containing hackers in the way you propose means. Unless you plan on making yet another automated hacker prevention system that works along the same lines as all of the others.
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Quoted for truth. He doesn't seem to understand the volume of hack reports that are going to be coming in.
To OP:
What constitutes video proof of an aimbot? Getting shot? What differentiates that from a legitimate headshot? How do we know you aren't wearing armor? Why are you going to punish a good player?
What constitutes video proof of ESP? Someone finding you? A lot of players are very bad at strategy, and aren't very good at hiding. It's easy to use a decent pair of headphones to follow their footsteps around. I've even followed invisible admins this way.
What constitutes video proof of someone flying? Someone being dubbed into a video? Piece of cake. You say "well I'll just ban / demerit / downvote / sanction / etc admins for making false reports", but you won't know they're false.
In all of the above cases, you'll have an admin claiming cheating and a player claiming innocence. Boom, deadlock 100% of the time. Now you're going to require five admins to upvote the ban? Sweet - my clan brothers and I will share links daily so we can all upvote each other's bans. While I'm at it, I'll just upvote every ban I see. I'm sure lots of other admins will, too. After all, it's not like there's a shortage of abusive admins on here.
There's a reason bans aren't left to the community. The community is both vindictive and stupid. Read through the "OMG REPORT HACKERS HERE" thread and see all the "someone raided my base but didn't even open my door OBVIOUSLY HE'S NOCLIPPING" posts followed by "omg yea good thing u reported him lol".
By the way, what country are you in?
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I like OP's determination to get hackers banned.
But this method is just too prone to abuse.
Especially on games like this, where people rage hard.
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We have one guy who keeps coming onto one of our servers, typing in chat something like "HEH - YOU HAVE BEEN REPORTED TO VAC, IT'S ONLY A MATTER OF TIME HACKER" and disconnecting.
A few weeks ago we raided his base hard. He's butthurt because bow vs 4 M4s.
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wow thats pretty impressive and useful
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It's easy, if it's a false positives or anyshit u call, just review the banned account or give second chance. Because this is driven by the community. people still can "discuss"
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Probably the easiest way to limit the impact of abuse would be to use a similar system to that used in compiling other forms of blacklist and filter - by accumulating a weighting for bans based on the number of "local" bans a specific user has recieved on all participating servers.
Essentially, if you get banned on a participating server, or reported, etc (depending on how you implement the initial reporting feature) your account earns one report token. As you continue to be reported by other participating admins, you accrue report tokens.
Other participating admins can then configure their server to be as light or heavy handed as they like. You could block users with only one or two tokens, or wait until they have accrued dozens, hundreds or even thousands.
This would also allow you, if you wanted, to weight the severity of reports and allow you to block for reasons other than just hacking. An "abusive player" report for example, could only be worth 1 token, whilst a "suspected hacker" report could be worth 5, and someone who publicly admits they hack could be worth 10, 20 or even more tokens. You'd need to establish this with your users independently.
On the flip side of this however, you'd need participating admins to register somewhere, in order that their individual reports can be tracked. Limit admins to one report per user, for the most severe incident for that user (with proof where possible) and then you're blocking by consensus, to really abuse the system then, you'd need to organise a lot of other admins into reporting the same users as yourself, and anyone suspected of doing so could be removed from the system and their reports revoked.
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I know where you're coming from with this, that is why I allowed visitors to join the conversations, and that's why I log voters if your friend and yourself started banning legit players one red sign would be the same people voting on each others constantly.
Not to mention as only one account per server can be created, chances of getting personal friends to vote go down a lot.
The proofs are not mine to decide, I understand some hacks are hard to detect, that is why I mentioned if you do not have proofs that speak for themselves, call it whatever, either you are not sure, you just followed someone, etc. Aim bot can be detected with the help of the community, 50 head shots in a row? Well you could start suspecting about of that. Two, three or even 10 head shots can be commonly found in CS tournaments. So if you are not sure, simply don't send it.
A player can say he/she did not hack, if proofs do not speak or something simply doesn't seem wrong then just skip it, not like this would be able to ban 100% of hackers/cheaters.
Also anyone using the list is free to look up the reported steam IDs, review them and create their own whitelist of those IDs that they don't think were hackers. With time hackers will be banned by valve, and we will be able to see it from the system as it also mentions the valve status of the users.
Also remember that atleast 80% of the people in the internet use the same nicknames! you suspect on someone? Well research a bit, you might find some very impressive hints.
I'm from Mexico :)
Someone gets the idea, yay! ^^ That's what people seem to not understand, as community driven, bans can come and go, discussion is key here.
Thank you haha, we will get rid of those little by little.
Lmao, yesterday someone claimed I was hacking and killing them when I was trying to make a shelter before dying from that new fall damage going on. People tend to call up anything, I think that guy you're talking of is the one that claimed I was hacking haha, because he did say he'd report me to Valve. You know, if you did nothing you are safe, so whatever they can spend their clicks reporting to Valve all they want.
As a community we can work together to also take those that abuse their power, no one is stopping someone to post screenshots/videos about an abusive admin.
We had our conversation, we didn't agree with our ideas, so I will just drop it in there.
Thanks!
Thanks for the idea, much appreciated! Filtering sounds like a good idea, more than voting to add to a list. That is also faster to make than creating a vote system that takes action every x time. It could work with the vote system but adding a filtering and not simply adding someone to the list. About the one report per admin, that's how it works at the moment, basically once an admin has added information to the report they can't vote on those.
Hmmm... That looks like a very nice idea, giving people the opportunity to decide what goes and what doesn't. Let's say 10 admins voted the user as a hacker/cheater but other 5 voted for a legit user, then the rating of this user would be 5 with title "suspected hacker".
I think I will take your word :) I mean that's what it's about, making it grow with the community.
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actually the idea was to remove voting altogether. Admins "report" users and those users get a certain number of points each time they're reported and that's it, (though implementing some kind of natural decay or mechanism for lowering scores could also be implemented if you wanted.)
separate to this, on each server, the admins can determine what level of points they want to block users at.
Some admins may wish to block anyone that's ever been reported, and set the value at 1 point.
Another may decide they'' give people a shot and set the value at 10-20 points - probably figuring they'll monitor suspicious players themselves and ban/report if needed.
Others may be happy for pretty much anyone to play, but want to ensure that the real hardcore hackers don't get access, and set the value at 100+
As the client and server software get further developed, you might then find that you can assign permissions based on that score - possibly allowing users with points to join your server, but banning them from using chat, or forcing sleepers even on no-sleeper servers for example.
Essentially what you maintain is a blacklist with scores that are generated by users being reported, and its up to each individual administrator how much they want to rely on your scoring system, they can be as heavy handed or easy going as they like, and if they feel that the community of administrators that is participating is being too easy going, or too heavy handed, they can adjust the way their server handles those scores individually.
Most email spam filters work in the same kind of way, as an example. The filter checks the email for a list of different things it considers "suspicious" and the email slowly generates a score based on the things the filter finds... links = 0.5 pts, images 0.2, no subject line - 0.3, etc etc Once the filter is done, the email gets an overall total score, and then the email system applies filtering rules against that total... a score of 5 for example might mean the email is marked as spam, but makes it to your mailbox or junk folder. A score of 10 means the email is deleted by the filter and never makes it to your account. None of those figures are set in stone, and any mail server administrator can change the weighting of any specific item, or the level at which a rule kicks in at locally - all the software does is keep a list of stuff to check.
In this way, you don't need to really worry about how fair, or unfair, individual admins are being, as each server admin can apply or modify the overall effect of those scores as they see fit on their server.
I hope this helps anyway, I really don't want to crash your thing or tell you how to build your mod, but I have a feeling that this kind of approach will limit the amount of work you end up doing to maintain your mod, and give individuals all the flexibility they could want in applying it to their personal servers.
Best of luck with it:)
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Don't worry you are not, I am looking for suggestions and what you suggested is actually a better way than what I had planned. It's a good thing that you have suggested it now as I was in the process of creating the voting systems. But as this simply requires to add more reports then I will just get rid of the following:
- Karma levels will be kept but they will be modified to be positive instead of negative points by ranking up/down admin's report, anyone, registered or not (by this I mean identified with Steam) will be able to rank the admins report as an indication of how usefull this admin's reports have been.
- Voting system will be removed all together.
- Coincidences will be removed. To rate someone I will add on the comments area a snipet for registered users (admins) to be able to post their comment and if they want to add 1 token they will be able to. This will also be shown in a section on the report that will mention who else has reported the user.
- Denounces will be kept in a more private way, user & me. In order to monitor false reports and suspend any administrators abusing this sytem, this would bring less reports than applying a direct ban just because people voted against a user.
- Report status will be removed (Pending, Rejected, Confirmed)
- I need to think of the titles for each pack of tokens obtained on a report then, probably just use the level images as well but from Level 1 to Level 10, Level 1 could be from 1-10 reports/tokens, Level 2 from 11-20, Level 3 from 21-30, and so on up to Level 10 which would be 101+ reports/tokens.
- Users will be able to save their filter options so they can simply update their list whenever they want without going through the process of setting it up again. Note that the list will be public and it is not required to be registered to download it, however to save the settings it will require to atleast log in with steam to load the settings from your account.
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What do you think about this? I have spent all day thinking on how it could work before I do something, need people to comment about this suggestion as I think it could be a better way to filter bans as how admins see fit.
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Edit:
Question, for those programmer gurus.
Is there a way to check if a server is online or not through an Steam API or something? I have tried pinging servers but it does not bring anything. Asking because I am wondering how toprustservers.com can check if a server is online/offline and how many users are on. This would greatly help improve the verification systems.
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The karma bars really shouldn't be images.
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Simple solution is the strike policy. 3 Admins report the same steamid...then you get a ban. No it does not fix the system perfectly however it does reduce the likely badmins.
Change the 3 to whatever # you want. Also Bans should not be perma bans....I say your standard 24 Hour or 3 day or a week and escalate to a perma which requires a appeal.
-Dan
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Hahaha, I could make them with CSS, but meh >,> photoshop is faster in that matter xD
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Edit:
You know what is the best part? Some people that are roaming around this post are hackers/cheaters haha, already found a couple of them just researching a little.
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Leave the bans to VAC. I've been banned from more than one server for raiding an admins base and killing him or his friend (idk), and also cussing out an admin for abuse (he was running around with godmode killing players).
Something like this is too easily manipulated by butthurt admins with a spare twenty bucks.
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I don't think it could be manipulated as much with DrNoesis' idea, but yeah what you said is expected to happen. Admins using this system are free to ban whoever the hell they want as long as they don't affect other legit players.
And by a rating system, which can be filtered when creating the ban list as the Administrator's sees fitting, then 1, 2, 10 butthurt admins will tickle the end-user, risking several things.
1. Being added to the "bad apples" page, oh yeah it will show their server information, steam information with their steam ID, profile page, and so on, so people should avoid them ;) - As the new verification system kicks in, any new accounts will require to link their steam account, and when doing it it will also validate that you have RUST in it, so that way, if people want to come troll someone they will atleast have to pay for RUST and in the case they pay the IP changes, well, they will also have to pay for that as servers are only provided by dedicated hostings and users cannot create their own server as the files have not been released for Alpha. I will also look for a way to check if a server IP is online every X time, that way I can check if an account does not have a valid online server anymore and suspend it automatically. I will find the way, I know there is a way and I will find it.
2. Being suspended from the website.
3. Being reported and banned for cheating using their admin powers - LOL that'd be hilarious.
DrNoesis:
I have decided to set the rep/token system as levels as well as the karma thing for admins.
0-10 Rep. = Level 0 (it's probably and most likely a butthurt admin that added the report, atleast 10 admins will have to +1 the report to get it to the next level)
11 - 20 = Level 1
21 - 30 = Level 2
31 - 40 = Level 3
41 - 50 = Level 4 (this I guess would be the standard, to filter, as from here it'd be pretty much the bad apples)
51 - 60 = Level 5
61 - 70 = Level 6
71 - 80 = Level 7
81 - 90 = Level 8
91 - 100 = Level 9
101+ = Level 10+ (that's what the image says, i mean seriously someone that has been reported by 100 servers is just a bad apple)
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Hey guys,
Just letting everyone know that the website is now complete and ready for testing. I will give it a couple of days for debugging, improvements, fixing some texts and such.
For now the website is open and you can add whoever you want for now as we are on beta. Testers are required, for both, admin sections (registered users) and steam sections (visitors).
So, let's test it shall we? :) You are free to contact me on Twitter @yamgames
What has changed:
1. Report system:
Idea credits: DrNoesis
a) Now when an administrator reports someone, other admins will be able to review this report with a "Rating" system, where every individual admin can cast theirs through a comment.
b) Admins can remove their rating point if they decide denounces or proofs provided by other users (including visitors, aka Steam users) are good enough to remove your own rating. Rating is a personal thing, you can provide proofs if you have them as well and you will also appear in the "Also reported by" section on the main report to have track of who has provided feedback.
c) Anyone downloading our ban list can filter the ban list by the rating points given to the reports, as mentioned in the How it works page. This will help everyone to be as heavy handed or easy going as they wish. Meaning every individual user that uses this ban list can have different settings.
Someone that wants to ban every single person can set the rating filter to 1 point, someone that does not want false positives or fake bans could set the rating filter to 31 or 41 points, or someone that only wants hardcore hackers to be blocked could set the settings to 70 or 100.
2. Design
a) The logo and header got changed.
3. Verification systems for registered administrators
a) E-mail Verification: As usual, you get an e-mail and you have to click a sexy link to verify your e-mail.
b) Steam Verification: Two things are checked here, first we look at who the user is for this the profile MUST be public atleast during the steam verification. We get their steam id, steam id 64, persona name, URL, and other information. And we also verify that this user has RUST in his/her game list, as we only require people that play this game to be able to use this website. A Rust Server Admin without RUST? I don't think so.
c) Server Ownership Verification: When registering an account the user must provide a valid and online rust server. Before we even start with the registration system, we verify that no other admin has verified that server and that the server is online right now. So that's the first part, then comes the Server Ownership Verification, someone can register with a real server however if you do not have access to the configuration of that server, well, good luck using your account.
What we do to verify the server:
1. We check, as mentioned that the server is online.
2. You are requested to change the name of your server adding a string the system will tell you.
3. Once you click the verification button, it checks the name of the server being changed, if you did it correctly, then you're done with the server verifications. Congratz! your account is now verified :)
This way there's 0 posibility to have a user that may want to troll people adding entries like crazy, as you can only add one account per server IP, well either the users will require to change their IP or something like that to sign up new accounts.
Yeah we thought about that as well, so we also added a little back-end script checking for the servers being online, if they do not respond for a long period of time, the account will be locked out until you verify the server ownership again. Meanwhile, no one will be able to sign up with the previous used IP/PORT :) <3
4. Messages
a) We wanted to let everyone participate and join the discussions, due to this we added the Steam API to identify visitors.
5. Search engine
a) Users and visitors can look for anyone in Steam, either using their steam id, steam id 64, nickname or profile url. We fetch the data from Valve and display it to you while we save any new searches and update all repeated searches.
This way our search system will have concurrent data when someone else looks for a nickname that was used back in 2012. Yeah we can show the nickname history if users and VAC Status and stuff like that! 0.0
6. Denounce system
a) The denounce system was completed, however we changed the way of how it worked. Now the reported users can send their denounce at any time (they decide when to send it). As mentioned in the how it works page, someone with a rate level 0, 1 or 2 may still be a false positive a fake ban or simply a butt hurt admin that got his friends to rate this user up.
We tell the user to not send the denounce when they're on the lower rating levels as they may not find any issues joining any new server as most admins using the list will filter those, except for those heavy handed.
But they're free to send it nontheless, they can put in videos, images, formatted text, etc. We require the user to log in so we can automatically check if the user has been reported or not.
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Nice to find some intresting content in the Forums. Hope everything goes fine.
If you need any help developing the site just PM me and i will give you my hand.
I know about GFX, HTML5 & CSS3 and i have some style hehe.
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all registered up and waiting for some users on my server to ban and report.
Sorry I didnt reply to your earlier post, I lost the thread, and only found the site through google, but it's looking pretty promising. Would be nice to have a poke around the oxide systems to see if its possible to automatically populate a ban list from your systems for validated accounts, but I dont have dev access to it :(
In any case, this looks to be a really promising project, so I hope that you're able to get sufficient numbers to give it a good solid work out :)
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Just going to say this - this kind of mass ban list is prominent in a ton of player-owned server games such as BF3/4, CS:S, GMOD and etc. This is nothing new. Stop the QQ.
Good work OP.
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This is a pretty nice system, man. I understand other people's concerns but at the same time... you take the good with the possible bad with a project like this. If it's done with the community in mind, it should be fairly well done.
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Thanks all for your kind words :)
Yes many things changed thanks to people commenting and pointing out flaws that my initial system had, now it's harder to fake a ban, there will be, we all can agree with that happening, but it won't affect as bad as it would initially affected.
And with time, we will be able to detect those admins abusing their "power" or more like "permissions" (power is a very big word for what it really is).
Now the next step is on the admins side, as we just need to test the system before releasing it. I will try to not wipe the database and keep the entries during beta, as I would like to see the site growing as off today :P
As a side note, to anyone using this system's ban list (during beta or not), as the site is just starting you won't find for now reports with 31 or 41 ratings to filter. So I'd suggest to use this time for adding your reports to start off keeping your own bans, once the site starts having more activity then the ratings will start going up, then you'll be able to get an accurate ban list :)
Jwerd, you also got a really nice website ^^ I said that on twitter I believe haha, congratz to you too :)
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Little update!
The home page has been changed, used the comments system to make a news system and also shows what people (and I) are talking of Rust Ban List by using the hashtag #RustBL
http://rust.yamgames.com
You can now start inserting your reports, just wiped the ban list and the comments. Let's hope nothing wrong goes up with the reports (script/database wise), if data gets corrupted I will try to save it but as this is meant for debugging well, a wipe can happen but I'm pretty sure I have tested things enough to say it's working.
Improvements will always take place, I will keep working on the website to improve things, for example: Search systems, personal profile page (for admins), adding a server net.connect change function (will require you to verify it again), and many more things.
But these will be worked on while the site is up and running as these are minor fixes/updates.
I still have to fix some typos and text structure here and there (how it works page, for example).
Please, if you are a server admin sign up and verify your server ownership. I assure you this system will work better than having a post on these forums showing no proofs and allowing anyone to point fingers affecting other users.
All verifications are done automatically on the website so there's no wait time to start using it :)
If you find an error or something let me know so I can fix it/them asap.
Thanks!
Dumb x 10
Winner x 9
Informative x 2
Disagree x 2
Agree x 1
Funny x 1
Optimistic x 1
Useful x 1
Friendly x 1
