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Post #41
Try a Non sleeper server.no, I like the bandits on the roads , i like the combat , i like the tension of hunting for resources with a target on my back, but i can do something about those , i could make a pipe shotgun and defend myself , i could run away , i could parley with said bandits.
but you cant do a damn thing if you are logged out, its a disconnect in the realism , my character is in my house but because i am not online he just sleeps through an explosion that would wake the dead. it is simply not realistic or fair .
this is a game , so no matter what there will be something that simply cannot change .. they the need a player to log out to do real life shit like eat sleep and work for a living .
and only the rich can make stupidly sophisticated houses that require 20 c4 to get through.
and on that topic 10 c4 and you raid 9 - 10 houses a day , 100 bricks of c4? and you dont see an issue with that,
pve is pointless , and EVERYONE here knows it , we both know that telling me to do pve is the same as telling me to quit the game , so please don't bother .
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Try a Non sleeper server.
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5 metal doors and 1 wall....
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thats nothing...
so ur telling me that the 100 of 100 of metal frags i used to make a metal house defended with atleast 5 metal doors being raided threw with only 400 gunpowder and 125 metal frags is ok?
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Thank you captain obvious this was my point lol!
I have no idea how they got explosives... and it could not have been the work of an admin.
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You can craft explosives, and get C4 from zombies, crates & airdrops, lol.
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I hate how anytime someone brings up something they don't like or think should be changed about the game, they get told to "go PvE" or "it's alpha."
Isn't the point of alpha/beta testers to find and point out flaws in the game, to make the finished product as polished as possible?
And I agree with you OP, I've taken to building out in the boondocks. And even then just a one or two room house with everything crammed inside so I'm not an appealing target. One of my problems is that I have a hard time picturing how to build those elaborate multilevel fortresses with fake rooms and a million doors.
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1 Metal door = 200 Frags
11 Grenades = 275 Frags
5 Metal doors you would need 55 grenades, what would need 80 gunpowder and 25 metal fragments each. So you would need 4400 gunpowder and 1375 metal fragments to take down 5 doors.
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lol ur... just no..
Edited:
so the 1 hour of farming for those material to get my 1-5 days plus material is ok? And while there is no possible way for me to defend my base, since im not online. Since you know... i have to sleep and go to work and shower and shit.
I love PVP and i love being raided and raiding others, but its BS how i dont even get a warning of some kind that my house is being raided. Or no way to defend it, its just theirs and they have no challenges at all since they watched my base to see if i was online or not
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You think you can get 4400 gunpower and 1375 metal fragments in an hour? Yet you say it takes you 1-5 days to make 5 doors? Are you delusional?
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Something got messed up recently or changed without a log because wood walls take just 1 C4 to blow through, it used to take 3. I tested this on a server I purchased. The game is about survival, but houses should be more than a paper shield. A good balance should be that the easiest way into a house is through the door so metal doors should continue to take 2 C4 to blow up and all wood walls should take 3 instead of the 1 we have now.
Keep in mind this game is buggy but in my testing both on my server and on the receiving end of an attack, walls are taking 1 C4 to blow up. However, I did run into an indestructible wall on my server while the doorway was still up. Again, the game is buggy.
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Know of any good ones? Seems like out of the whole server list there are usually about 2.
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Or you guys could go make the house I showed in page 1?
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if you have the time and money sure , i could do that , but i got a day job remember?
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Honestly, when you get a pistol killing naked hatchet looters is the best suggestion and it won't take that long acctualy since wood is so scarce now
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... so go raid the raiders house if its so easy to make the c4 go spend the time and get ur stuff back and if you say they have too good of a house then you need to go back to the drawing board and make a better house.
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My base usually gets hit with 20+ c4 every other IRL day on a low pop/recently wiped server.
My current base requires 20+ c4 minimum to get to 1 loot room. The average player count on my server is around 30-40 people throughout the day. My base is nowhere near safe on that server.
C4 is somewhat difficult to obtain for 80% of the population playing but once you have it all researched you can spam so much c4 with a small group of people all focused on it in a pretty reasonable amount of time.
IDK how it could be better balanced though. There HAS to be the risk of getting raided to make the game exciting and if they take out too much c4 then it'll be too easy to be safe in the game.
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you know , we dont HAVE to make the only risk to player home as other people.
people are an inherently unpredictable variable. I am convinced that making them the main threat in the game will result in this kind of lopsided balance.
but why not have ai controlled mutant or bandit camps on the map that also can be raided and perform raids on players.
why not have events. there should be raiding , but dont think being a dick and ruining peoples fun should be the center point of end game , i thought surviving was supposed to be that goal.
surviving for groups of people is far to easy right now. the game needs to throw more tangible threats at them to give them more distractions.
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You don't seem to get Salt's point. He's pointing out that it is TOO easy to get the c4. What I think he is asking for is more scarcity, more of a challenge to obtaining one of the games "end game" components.
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As u can see, its only you who are think its easy to raid people. Just build a SAFE house then its no problem.
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the real problem is the same problem as always. location location location. building near resources. or near rad town, hiding till ur established or building out in the open, its risk management, i run with a partner so we usually go with be the first cpl ppl online hit the rad towns hard, move a hiding ground farm resources build a moderate base, 2-4 charge protection with equal door rights, then stockpile, everything goes towards finding metal building supplies and research, get that full kev, guns, bullets, try to go to every airdrop, eventually ull get one to get explosives, by day 2 we have a metal base and a 20chage protected loot room, usually after 20-30 hours of work and very little sleep
but that can be what it takes to get ahead if ur not working with 10+ ppl
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um , i dont even need to leave this page of the thread to tell you how wrong you are
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I think most of us can all agree that to fix this problem we need:
1. The playable area needs to be way bigger so people can hide bases.
Random Ideas:
a) Caves, forests and vast mountain range for secret hideouts.
b) Loot holes that can be accessed with a shovel, hard to detect.
2. C4 should be harder to come by (for now until the map gets bigger).
Random Ideas:
a) To make C4 you need materials or resources that can only be gathered in high risk pvp areas.
b) Shouldn't be craftable but obtained in airdrops
c) You can only hold onto so much C4 you can't just raid 10 houses in minutes.
3. People shouldn't have to play the game 24/7 to feel safe in the game.
Random Ideas:
a) Maybe the body should disappear after 20 minutes time after logging out.
b) Everyone gets a safe that cannot be blown up or accessed by anyone but the player.
c) Banking system in different safe areas of the map.
d) So called pvp areas with huge amount of resources, risk for loot.
These are only some of My ideas of some changes that need to be considered to make the game fun an challenging at the same time.
The big change needs to be enlargement of the map so solo players can hide or play in a area that hardcore raiders and pvp areas are far away. However that would cost them lack of resources to be able to make endgame gear like C4 and Kevlar.
Please leave a response if you like, please use reason and good arguments, maybe throw in different solutions.
We all love this game, that's why we are here. However the game needs to change to the better for everyone.
Merry christmas and a happy new year Rust players.
-Maxi
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the thing is i kinda want to fend off people who raid my house , defending against crazed arnachists is part of the charm of surviving in a post apolitical game , thus having people able to blow up your base while your offline is a miss opportunity as much as it is a frustrating piece of game design
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to be fair only 3 of them were mine, I had a group 6 people bring another 5 and then the admin used 3 to finally break it i.e. 11
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I asked what the threshold was for Airdrops, so that we could get explosives and you called in an air drop. We got explosives from that air drop that you called in.
After raiding you, you abused your admin powers and killed us all. I would steer clear of Neon's server unless you want to get greifed by an admin.
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C4 shouldn't even be in the game, period.
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If there is going to be c4 in the game which I don't understand how it would work without an electric charge, then we need to have a active defense. My solution is tame dogs and bears. People will think twice if there are dogs and bears in your house.
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well c4 would make sense if we had highly dangerous areas like military armories or bases that you need rad suits even to step foot in and are full of mutants and other dangers .
but being able to manufacture it from easily accessible resources once you have the bleu print , no matter how expensive you make it , will make said item too accessible
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granted, it's in alpha so the whole map thing and resource thing is wacky...
but yeah, op. i'm not sure what the devs are trying to make:
a casual grindy shooter or a persistant mmo.
if they want the first one, they got it. polish and release.
if they want the 2nd one, the environment is going to have to be much more brutal in order to slow the casual gamers down. right now, they have no real obstacles once they get rolling. food, gear, threats... once they have a toehold that's it.
the c4 is a joke. i'm guessing that most of the "bandips" will be leaving once the game goes retail because they won't be able to craft the crap they are using right now nearly as easily, thus, the game to them will "suck at retail" since it won't be easy mode any more.
i agree though, not much point in testing the alpha more then a single shot per day. once i lose my build, meh... i got other things to do. already paid my money, holler when the thing goes retail and we shall see if the devs listened to the forums or not.
Peace
B
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I think that a lot of people argue back and forth about C4... but let's take it a step back: WHY does C4 have to be the starting place? In fact, C4/Explosives do not jive with the theme of progression that some of the other items have in the game.
For instance, you start melee weapons here: Stone > Stone Hatchet > Hatchet > Pickaxe. And while I do realize that you can jump around and don't HAVE to progress in this order, my point is that there are LEVELS to melee weapons, not just ONE almighty-powerful melee weapon. Besides, each weapon has its own pros/cons (i.e., the Pickaxe is slow, but hits very hard).
In contrast, explosives are like this: Grenade > Explosive charge. See the difference?
SUGGESTION ---------------------------------
My suggestion is not to take away C4, but to add other, more primitive forms of explosives. Make a weaker explosive more easily available and craftable, but bring the damage down. In return, re-structure the grenade so that it is behind the C4 in a more logical step. Thus, we'd have something like:
Booby Trap > Explosive Rocket (more of a primitive siege weapon) > Anti-Personnel Mine (awesome for protecting your house) > Primitive Mortar (could replace the Explosive Rocket to eliminate one) > Pipe Bomb > Grenade > C4/Explosive Charge
None of those have to be included, I've only used them as examples that could be used to create a more rounded out explosive weapon system. Make three levels (or more) such as Primitive, Intermediate, Advanced explosive weapon types.
Sure, you might have Pipe Bombs, but a raiding group who has more resources than you has C4 still. But at least you have a fighting chance with some strategy.
Same thing could be done with guns, though I think guns are a bit easier to come by. They may not need to be modified at all.
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Dent:
i asked em to include the entire history of human weapons, all craftable. the higher the value, the more resources and time and i think there SHOULD be a progression system:
start with wood, master wood, learn rock, master rock, learn metal. and these should be pretty grindy trees to fleece out the casuals.
my example was that it's gonna be easier to craft 5 catapults that use wood rather then 1 bradley that uses shells. both do similar "forms" of damage, but there are obvious pluses and minuses to both. just depends on number of players in your team and resources available.
Peace
B
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I agree, I love the fact that there is raiding as an option in place. However, I do find it troublesome that i log out in my locked hut, and goto bed, or to eat, and then when i come back the next day, and iv'e been killed. It is very irritating.
not sure how you could really combat something like this though? Maybe have it so people can't enter shelters that have closed doors?
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Thats like 4 hogs and 80 metal ore, easy peasy. i agree with you salty.
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I've had no problem with raiders except for the people who cheat and blow your base up with 200 c4.
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Keep in mind that will also take down all of the walls around them...
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The problem that i have with raiding is 2 fold. First everyone says goto a PvE server. This is bunk. there is more raiding done there than anywhere because there is no way to stop it. You cant kill the guy that is c4-ing your building all you can do is stand there and watch. So the whole you should play PvE thing is out.
The second problem that i have is there are no real formidable defenses out there. All you can really do is keep moving your stashes ect and hope that noone catches you that night. Eventually everyones house is blown up one way or the other. Including in this is the degradation of items in game to make raiding relatively simple.
I watched a guy run all around a house and then place 1 charge and bang hes in through a wall - not a door. I asked why he chose that wall and he said it was the oldest one, it was darker than the rest so he knew it wouldn't take 2 charges to get through the wall. So especially building structures shouldn't degrade - unless we have the opportunity to check each wall and see its "health" to see if it needs repaired or not.
If i had a wish list - it would be more stones from rock and not as much sulfur and the ability to actually make palisade walls and eventually stone walls.
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You can repair structures, and it shows their health when you do so. Put the resource in your quick slot (i.e., cloth for a sleeping bag, wood for a wooden door), hold that quick slot number and click the structure. It will repair the structure partially on each click, using 1 resource each time. Easy to test by hatcheting a wooden box or other object then repairing it. Also, regarding better walls etc.. You can put spikes on top of walls if you're patient :p won't stop them blowing through, but makes scaling them less convenient ;)
Agree x 2
Disagree x 1
Dumb x 1
