[saltychipmunk]

So I get raided ... all the time.. to the point where I just need to step away from the game for a fair bit , which is ok I accept that.

But does anyone else feel that it is much much MUCH to easy to get kitted out with absurd technologically sophisticated items that take what ever balance and atmosphere of the game and take a nice steamy dump on it?

the big things are the c4 and the t2 guns which turn a survival game into call of duty. and i do mean that in every sense , i mean it in the gun play , and i mean it in the accessibility.
how the heck do people get c4 using what amounts to stone age items. you need heat and an electric charge to detonate c4 ,it is completely inert without both (that is actually why it was such an attractive explosive to begin with.)
I can understand getting it eventually , but to be able to walk into a rad town and for an hour and walk out with the charge recipe is rather silly.

it rather undermines the whole bandit thing.

I know I know alpha , but still

but the more important issue , is how the ease of raiding makes casually playing the game physically impossible , the vulnerability of walls and shacks because of c4 effectively means you have to have a guy on all the time . I have a day job , and it a huge turn off to come back from said 8 hour a day job to find my house obliterated on a daily basis and could do NOTHING to defend it . if this were realistic then setting off a charge would wake my characters ass up and not keep him in an artificial coma. I could see if i was online and they blow my shit up while i was away from camp , or blowing up my shack while i was in it .

but to be able to do raid on houses when people have absolutely no real way to counter it sucks the fun right out of the game .


Perhaps this is unreasonable , perhaps i should just go else ware , but i think i should have at the very least an opportunity to enjoy this game .

Is it too difficult to ask making the buildings unbreakable while a player is not logged in after like an hour or so ( to prevent cheese logging out mid raid) obviously there would have to be some cue to tell raiders the peeps be out of server so they dont waste stuff.

This request might be unreasonable and if that is the case , then everyone in the community may have a nice day and ill be heading for the door.

[Johnsonn]

Maybe PVE is for you?

[Fujamate]

all what u must to learn is build a secure house... i raid ~10 houses per day and 9 from 10 i dont need more then 6-8 c4 for the loot room

[saltychipmunk]

no, I like the bandits on the roads , i like the combat , i like the tension of hunting for resources with a target on my back, but i can do something about those , i could make a pipe shotgun and defend myself , i could run away , i could parley with said bandits.

but you cant do a damn thing if you are logged out, its a disconnect in the realism , my character is in my house but because i am not online he just sleeps through an explosion that would wake the dead. it is simply not realistic or fair .

this is a game , so no matter what there will be something that simply cannot change .. they the need a player to log out to do real life shit like eat sleep and work for a living .

and only the rich can make stupidly sophisticated houses that require 20 c4 to get through.

and on that topic 10 c4 and you raid 9 - 10 houses a day , 100 bricks of c4? and you dont see an issue with that,

pve is pointless , and EVERYONE here knows it , we both know that telling me to do pve is the same as telling me to quit the game , so please don't bother .

[LewiFerg]

saltychipmunk posted:

but to be able to walk into a rad town and for an hour and walk out with the charge recipe is rather silly.

If you play on newly wiped servers with low populations there is a lot less raiding.

To make charges you do need the blueprint, but you also need explosives, what can only be obtained from airdrops. So if you join a new server, nobody should have explosives. Apart from making charges there is only grenades, which take a lot of resources for a single person to make.

[saltychipmunk]

still doesn't change the fact that if you don't live on the server , you are essentially screwed

[john55223]

I enjoy the way that rust is. Rust is a game of risk, and a lot of it. This is the first game that I have found to be as immersive, as to you can get raided/killed while logged off.

I have only been raided once, out of six days of playing, and that was a stupid decision on my part, building next to rad town, with a very defenceless base.

Ensure that you have many doors/walls to go through to get to your loot, make sure no one can build up to your roof. Remember that players can blow up walls.

Your post seems to be nothing more than a rant, with no valid arguments. No one said this game has to be realistic, and I favor gameplay > realism, which is part of the reason I have given up on DayZ. You said yourself, it is easy to get geared up, then do so, and stop whining about getting raided.

[saltychipmunk]

its easy to get geared up, its not easy to build a house to defend against said gear up,

I can assume you appreciate how much resources it takes to build a house that has 6 - 7+ metal doors on its way to the real room.

again rust is a game of risk , but what fun is there if i cant even contest a raid.

i get raided daily , which means i will NEVER have the mythical resources you are talking about , so please just stop.

[LewiFerg]

saltychipmunk posted:

still doesn't change the fact that if you don't live on the server , you are essentially screwed

Well it's easy to point out what is wrong with the game, the hard part is coming out with a solution, what is fair for everyone.

[saltychipmunk]

fair enough on that point,

but there are obvious ways to improve it ,

and the major change would be to bring the amount of time and resources to make a defensible house in line with what it takes to blow one off the earth.

And i suppose that is my main issue , the amount of resources needed to build metal doors and houses does not add up to how easy it is to get c4 once the recipe is known.

if trees could give more wood and resource nodes were more plentiful, then maybe i could do enough in a single play session to dissuade raids.

but right now , i would literally have sit in an open field for 5 hours getting 3000 wood and 200 metal ore to build a house that would be even slightly challenging to break down.

that is absurd and you know it .

[erpages]

I think the problem are the modern weapons (M4, Mp5,...) & air drop & crates that gives C4, a lot of ammo, weapons. This more than survival game it's like a Call of Duty with some 'survival' (Gather your weapons then you can paw paw paw paw kill everybody).

[Mourne]

I would be ok with C4 being less easily obtained. People showing up with 20+ C4 charges is ludicrous. Just a few threads down on this forum is a thread called "11 c4 to blow one wooden wall". This guy is running around blowing 11 charges on a single wall ffs lol.

Then again - alpha, of course. I can understand if they're so readily available right now make sure there is lots of testing done with them. :) I hope for the actual game that they are more of a commodity to be used wisely, and with forethought.

[LewiFerg]

saltychipmunk posted:

fair enough on that point,

but there are obvious ways to improve it ,

and the major change would be to bring the amount of time and resources to make a defensible house in line with what it takes to blow one off the earth.

And i suppose that is my main issue , the amount of resources needed to build metal doors and houses does not add up to how easy it is to get c4 once the recipe is known.

if trees could give more wood and resource nodes were more plentiful, then maybe i could do enough in a single play session to dissuade raids.

but right now , i would literally have sit in an open field for 5 hours getting 3000 wood and 200 metal ore to build a house that would be even slightly challenging to break down.

that is absurd and you know it .

Did you not read what I wrote? You must playing on high population servers or servers what have been around for a while because it is not easy to make C4 on a newly wiped fairplay server. There is a solution, at least try it before repeating that it's easy so make C4.

Have you ever raided? To make one C4 you need:

383 Sulfur
308 Charcoal
60 Animal fat
30 Cloth
8 Metal Fragments
(Edited)

That's absurd and you don't know it.

[saltychipmunk]

wow it is even cheaper than i thought , i can have 5 times that easily in an hour


zombies drop gun powder like a pinata drops candy
sulfur if you dont break it down into gun powder is stupidly plentiful since it is a byproduct of mining
8 metal fragments is a joke.
and animal fat and cloth. walk out side .. kill pig profit .

that recipe for what it does is extremely cheap .

half of those thing you would acquire whole stacks of by just starting out .

[LewiFerg]

saltychipmunk posted:

wow it is even cheaper than i thought , i can have 5 times that easily in an hour


zombies drop gun powder like a pinata drops candy
sulfur if you dont break it down into gun powder is stupidly plentiful since it is a byproduct of mining
8 metal fragments is a joke.
and animal fat and cloth. walk out side .. kill pig profit .

Yet you can't build a secure house? LOL.

Right you also need charge blue prints, research kit and explosives (what are only obtainable on airdrops) Plus I did the items wrong, you need 383 sulfur, 308 charcoal, 60 animal fat, 30 cloth and 8 metal fragments.

[erpages]

You must add that Air drop gives around 1-5 C4 & gunpowder, metal fragment. Zombies can drop C4 & crates from rad-towns too.

Ammo you can gather it from crates, air drop and zombies, so you can save sulfur and gunpowder to create C4.

Animal fat and cloth are easy to gather (Wolves give a lot, like 20 cloth and enough animal fat, like 4-5).

Sulfur you get it from mining, quite easy.

Actually a well-organized team can make a lot of C4 in not so much time & blow everyone, if you know which you can attack you gather all materials to make the same amount of C4 you spend & more things.


The only way to counter C4 is to have nothing in your house, a lot of metal doors & empty-crates in order to make them waste C4 and don't get anything. I give an advice: Spend all you have before you go to bed, if not, your enemy will be stronger.

[iFiNiTy]

LewiFerg posted:

Did you not read what I wrote? You must playing on high population servers or servers what have been around for a while because it is not easy to make C4 on a newly wiped fairplay server. There is a solution, at least try it before repeating that it's easy so make C4.

Have you ever raided? To make one C4 you need:

28 Gunpowder
25 Sulfur
8 Metal Fragments
4 Animal fat
2 Cloth

That's absurd and you don't know it.

Rofl it doesn't take those amounts at all.. It takes 300 gun powder, 30 low grade fuel,75 sulfer + 1 flare per explosive charge..

[Appeljenever]

LewiFerg posted:

Did you not read what I wrote? You must playing on high population servers or servers what have been around for a while because it is not easy to make C4 on a newly wiped fairplay server. There is a solution, at least try it before repeating that it's easy so make C4.

Have you ever raided? To make one C4 you need:

28 Gunpowder
25 Sulfur
8 Metal Fragments
4 Animal fat
2 Cloth

That's absurd and you don't know it.

You really think that's what you need to get an explosive charge?

Boy you're in for a surprise.

[drew4452862]

Have you ever raided? To make one C4 you need:

28 Gunpowder
25 Sulfur
8 Metal Fragments
4 Animal fat
2 Cloth

That's absurd and you don't know it.

per the wiki
Crafting The explosive charge needs to be researched before being crafted. It requires 15 Explosives and 1 Flare to make.

so 60fat, 30 cloth, 75 sulfur x2 for a door. 120fat, 60 cloth, 150 sulfur.

seems tough right? but most people dont play alone. So you can grind that in 1 hour. Every house after that is going to have some of these supplies, not to mention they might have charges. Imagine how people grind in WoW. That goes a long way

Now it needs to be balanced with resource gathering. How long does it take to build said house? You would have to be close to supplies and safe. It might take hours to setup(and not just get walled in or raided).

The amount of time making C4 and raiding is not balanced with base building. Not to mention, boring as hell to gather atm. So yes, drone on about alpha but servers need to do something about this now. My server is giving out resources on a timer to help balance this out and get people back to pvp.

[saltychipmunk]

if that other recipe is what it is , then it is more reasonable , still it can be much easier to aquire by killing zombies,

I am beginning to see a pattern here , zombie and rad towns = root of the problem


or at the very least exacerbates it

[erpages]

saltychipmunk posted:

if that other recipe is what it is , then it is more reasonable , still it can be much easier to aquire by killing zombies,

I am beginning to see a pattern here , zombie and rad towns = root of the problem


or at the very least exacerbates it

Add air plane too, that 3 are the main problem here...

[jakezn]

Actually a well-organized team can make a lot of C4 in not so much time & blow everyone,

lol... they can blow me alright

[pellepringle]

Yeah i know your feeling, it is the whole thing in this game. It wouldnt be the same game experience.
As u guys say, you need to build a secure house, like 4-6 metal doors to your chestroom. This corresponds that you need 8-12 C4, and C4 is hard to do.

[drew4452862]

I was close at one point, a large tower with foundations with pillars in the middle all around it. It is truly hard to make that building, get the metal, and not be trolled when starting out. On a server I made 4 houses with metal doors. All were blown in, THE NEXT DAY -.-

[Bintin]

Gotta add my 2 cents.

First of all, i do see your point. And while I partly agree with you, some of it is just plain wrong.

Raiding is by no means easy, the raiders take a huge risk bringing all their gear with them and showing themselfes openly to a lot of people.

And you cry about c4? I see the point that c4 isnt really fitting, but getting it takes ages. If you are farming zombies and get lucky is kinda lame ofc, since you get it essentially for free.
But crafting those satchel charges? 600!!! gunpowder... thats around 1500 sulfur per charge. Which is a friggin lot.

Im playing with a group of around 8 guys and we "craft" around 8 charges in 2 days. But then again there are zombies and loot crates which can drop plenty c4.

I wont talk about building a secure house, because thats farely basic and she be done easy.

And then there are the guns...
I dont mind the military grade weapons, but i do mind the pace at which they are aquired and the power gap between different tiers of weapons.

But this has been said already. The guns are mostly placeholders, its an alpha after all. You cant expect perfect balance.

[saltychipmunk]

and i don't , but I do believe it is our job as participants to discuss this so down the line the game evolves in a direction that is more enjoyable

also said building you mentioned is easy only because you have 8 guys.

try doing it alone

and no dont say make friends , 99% of the people i meet kill me , friendship simply isnt a reliable option in this game

[Fujamate]

dude if u build a house where u need 20 c4 and u get raided u can be mad but i play with 2 other peoples and its easy to craft 30-40 c4 and if u raid the right houses u will find c4 too.
we build in 2 days a house 9 fundations and 15 stages the closed way to our loot room are 30-35 metal doors all what u need is a bit time and brain to build a good house!

[Bintin]

Well, we live in the same valley, but we all got our own houses. The door mircomanagement is hell until we get shared doors.

As a tip for you, when building. It doesnt have to be perfect, just seem like it.
Make the raiders think they will have to pay a lot to get inside.
Get decoy rooms full of large storage boxes.

After they hit 2 empty rooms they thought would be full with loot, most of them will get pissed and stop.

Also keep in mind (if the servers was wiped recently), that most people dont have a lot of c4.

So, as long as you dont piss people off and show them were you live you can get away with a lot.

Biggest part, dont build next to big bases (without asking). And try to be bold. Build next to a road/rad places and most people wont even try raiding you.

Building openly makes it dangerous to raid and also makes most people belive you know what you are doing :D

To fujamate:

Its easy to craft 30-40c4?
Either you and ur friends are the most lucky persons in rust or you are just a lier oO

[GavGod'sGift]

You all do realise with let's say :
- 4 Metal Foundations. - 1 Metal Staircase
- 14 Metal Walls - 6 Metal Door Ways
- 7 Metal Ceilings - 6 Metal Doors

You have the MOST ANNOYING base of all time?

[/CODE]

Big image the tags made it look weird sorry :)

[iFiNiTy]

GavGod'sGift posted:

You all do realise with let's say :
- 4 Metal Foundations. - 1 Metal Staircase
- 14 Metal Walls - 6 Metal Door Ways
- 7 Metal Ceilings - 6 Metal Doors

You have the MOST ANNOYING base of all time?

Hmm I might be tired, care to explain further?D:

[NeonKnight]

LewiFerg posted:

If you play on newly wiped servers with low populations there is a lot less raiding.

To make charges you do need the blueprint, but you also need explosives, what can only be obtained from airdrops. So if you join a new server, nobody should have explosives. Apart from making charges there is only grenades, which take a lot of resources for a single person to make.

Say that to my server i started yesterday at 3am... Some guys came online in a big group for only a few hours built a huge base in hacker valley then started raiding and blowing up houses with C4... Mind you they were the only ones on the server with Explosives as well.

No one is safe. Low population new servers are just targets to kill all the "N00bs".

C4 is already expensive to make... maybe metal doors should be cheaper?

[Sifer_uk]

metal doors are cheap....... wtf?

[LewiFerg]

NeonKnight posted:

Say that to my server i started yesterday at 3am... Some guys came online in a big group for only a few hours built a huge base in hacker valley then started raiding and blowing up houses with C4... Mind you they were the only ones on the server with Explosives as well.

No one is safe. Low population new servers are just targets to kill all the "N00bs".

C4 is already expensive to make... maybe metal doors should be cheaper?

If it is a low population server and they have explosives then you must have set airdrops @ 10 for example, which is your problem. If you set air drops to 20, then they would only find charges.

[NeonKnight]

LewiFerg posted:

If it is a low population server and they have explosives then you must have set airdrops @ 10 for example, which is your problem. If you set air drops to 20, then they would only find charges.

no airdrops... never changed the value.

[LewiFerg]

NeonKnight posted:

no airdrops... never changed the value.

NeonKnight posted:

Mind you they were the only ones on the server with Explosives as well.

You can only obtain explosives from air drops.

[sniffle6]

I agree 100%
No reason to tell someone to play PVE cause PVE is stupid, might as well go play minecraft on single player.
Also, i love every PVP aspect of this game. But i have a life and a job and other things i HAVE to do, like sleeping. EVERY SINGLE NIGHT i go to sleep i wake up with everythign gone. EVERYTHING... and iv had my loot defended by 5 metal doors before. Its way to ridiculously easy to get raided. If you dont agree, its cause ur just one of the people abusing how easy it is.

[Jarmenkell001]

Having read all the good posts, and the bad ones, I do agree with the op on it being too easy.

[sniffle6]

Everyone also seems to be forgetting that it doesnt jsut take C4 to blow off doors. It only takes 7 grenades to blow off a door and it takes about 40 seconds to make 7 of them. This needs to be fixed bad....

[LewiFerg]

sniffle6 posted:

Everyone also seems to be forgetting that it doesnt jsut take C4 to blow off doors. It only takes 7 grenades to blow off a door and it takes about 40 seconds to make 7 of them. This needs to be fixed bad....

Are you joking? It takes 11 to take off a metal door and that's if they all hit.
Plus it takes 80 gunpowder and 25 metal fragments, what is a lot more than 40 seconds.

[Fujamate]

Bintin posted:

To fujamate:

Its easy to craft 30-40c4?
Either you and ur friends are the most lucky persons in rust or you are just a lier oO

yeah when u start raiding u will get stuff for c4 or full c4 charges
all what u have to do. look how active peoples in this house and u will have a big loot