1. Post #1
    Ripmax's Avatar
    October 2013
    137 Posts
    More than 400,000 people have lost their Jobseeker's allowance since sanctions for claimants were toughened last year. But are the new rules hurting those they are supposed to be helping?

    Peter Jones avoided a serious brain injury when he fell at work in November last year. But while he escaped with his health, his good fortune ended there - he was told not to come back to work and went to sign on.

    This was a month after new rules for those out of work were introduced and he was about to find out all about them.

    "I'd worked all my life," he says. "But they treated me as if I was cheating the system from day one. They didn't even know me."

    Anyone claiming Jobseeker's allowance (JSA) can be sanctioned for things such as missing a meeting with an adviser, not turning up to training or not being available for work.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24829866

    Reasons people have had their jobseekers allowance taken away:

    http://falseeconomy.org.uk/blog/a-li...ve-experienced
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  2. Post #2
    SJW 4 lyfe
    DaysBefore's Avatar
    December 2009
    7,342 Posts
    Hopefully they saved enough money to buy themselves some bootstraps
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  3. Post #3
    KANEDAAAA
    Anyx's Avatar
    August 2011
    679 Posts
    Glad I'm no longer claiming jobseeker benefit.

    Never again, too. It was a nightmare and it's only gotten worse.
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  4. Post #4
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    June 2005
    15,081 Posts
    I literally gave up with the whole jobseekers shit.

    It was such a shit system

    thankfully I managed to find a job with 30 remaining of my overdraft
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  5. Post #5
    This probably isn't a good idea
    Camundongo's Avatar
    October 2007
    3,374 Posts
    The whole JSA process is terrible, and the short time I was on it was completely useless and of no help whatsoever, so I just gave up.
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  6. Post #6
    Gold Member
    xianlee's Avatar
    October 2007
    2,349 Posts
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  7. Post #7
    Peng Weed Erryday
    Doozle's Avatar
    August 2005
    5,110 Posts
    My girlfriend tried to claim JSA when she finished uni and was looking for work. It was such a pain in the arse though and they were completely unhelpful. So we gave up with it.

  8. Post #8
    Morris dancer/Sex champion
    Uzbekistan's Avatar
    May 2011
    3,960 Posts
    When I was on JSA, they tried to force me to take an apprenticeship that payed 80 for 40 hours a week, with train tickets probably costing half of my pay, terrible system that just keeps getting worse
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  9. Post #9
    Gold Member
    xianlee's Avatar
    October 2007
    2,349 Posts
    My girlfriend tried to claim JSA when she finished uni and was looking for work. It was such a pain in the arse though and they were completely unhelpful. So we gave up with it.
    My mum was on NI based JSA, been paying into the system for 30 odd years and her payments stopped in Sept. She couldn't reclaim for income based either when it stopped.

    Luckily she has a job now but not enjoying it, anythings better then getting nothing though I guess.

  10. Post #10
    Gold Member
    Laputa's Avatar
    June 2013
    609 Posts
    It's not just JSA, when I was on ESA the jobcentre tried to take me off that multiple times

    "Hey I know you've got psychotic depression and OCD and panic attacks and your psychiatrist recommends you not work for a while but uuuuh just get a job lol"

    They're fucking despicable

    When I was on JSA, they tried to force me to take an apprenticeship that payed 80 for 40 hours a week, with train tickets probably costing half of my pay, terrible system that just keeps getting worse
    A4E wanted me to take an apprenticeship that was ~50 fucking miles away

    Not to mention the illustrations on all their paperwork is fucking patronising
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  11. Post #11
    Kirrimir's Avatar
    June 2009
    3,692 Posts
    When I was on JSA, they tried to force me to take an apprenticeship that payed 80 for 40 hours a week, with train tickets probably costing half of my pay, terrible system that just keeps getting worse
    Apprenticeships are a joke anyway, they pay fuck all and expect you to work a full 40+ hours week normally. It's literally impossible unless you still live with your parents.
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  12. Post #12
    Gold Member
    Killergam's Avatar
    August 2005
    1,848 Posts
    Apprenticeships are a joke anyway, they pay fuck all and expect you to work a full 40+ hours week normally. It's literally impossible unless you still live with your parents.
    They are not real apprenticeships, they are long hours, low pay and the training you get is bellow standard. I have seen apprenticeships for working in supermarkets and costa coffee, simply because they want cheaper "slave" labor.
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  13. Post #13
    Gold Member
    kenji's Avatar
    September 2006
    9,013 Posts
    When I was on JSA, they tried to force me to take an apprenticeship that payed 80 for 40 hours a week, with train tickets probably costing half of my pay, terrible system that just keeps getting worse
    Same sort of experience as you, i was long-term unemployed, did various courses, once had them try to drop my benefits as a job they gave me which required the application to be posted did not reach the address they gave me (surprise surprise, second class mail fun)

    Additionally forced to apply for Jobs large distances away (2h+) Jobs that are within 2h train travel time (Basically earning next to nothing) Hell 3 years ago on their system they had jobs posted for Adult film actors. Yep. Porn Stars. And the thing is the people are so fucking worthless there, they honestly do not give a shit, i spend a good 5 months at the Job Center before they moved me to TBG Learning, first interview i had with a advisor took a look at my CV and asked me the last time it was revised, i told her it was by the Job Center a good month ago and she told me it was pretty poor in standards.

    It's particularly aggravating as the first time i was unemployed before the change in benefits and change in party the Job Centre was actually pretty good, i had some meaningful conversations, my advisor at the time went well above and beyond to get me a 6 month job as part of the New Deal thing they had going on, i came back after that and it was like it had all gone to shit.

    It's like they literally just rubber stamp you until there is a point where they can throw you off the books at the earliest convenience.

    That said, TBG learning got me a full time job, so hears hoping i can steer clear of that shithole.
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  14. Post #14
    Gold Member
    Cushie's Avatar
    February 2005
    2,277 Posts
    Apprenticeships are a joke anyway, they pay fuck all and expect you to work a full 40+ hours week normally. It's literally impossible unless you still live with your parents.
    They are not real apprenticeships, they are long hours, low pay and the training you get is bellow standard. I have seen apprenticeships for working in supermarkets and costa coffee, simply because they want cheaper "slave" labor.
    Ideally you want apprenticeships with big tech companies, banks etc.

    I'm on an apprenticeship with a global technology company, and I started on 16k (250/week, about 8/$13hour) and they are paying fully for my degree alongside work, and I am expected to get quarterly/semi annual pay rises and opportunities for promotion (My roommate just got his first promotion and was bumped up to 20k, they expect after 5 years and the degree being completed we should be on 30-40k)

    Anyway people like to whine about it being too easy to get benefits in this country but I think it just depends on how much your local JSA people actually care. My step-brother was on JSA for a long long time since there is a bad shortage of work in my home area and that was quite soul destroying for him.
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  15. Post #15

    February 2010
    2,460 Posts
    i think a problem with ESA is people dont understand how to fill in the forms properly, im not talking about cheating or anything simply explaing the problem in a way they expect, if you google ESA descriptors and points there's explanations on how the forms work.

    ATOS do seem to try and downgrade you though i should have got in the support group but was put in the wrag i didn't bother appealing though because i dont have any trouble with my adviser i met her once when i was moved onto ESA she phones every 6 months and has offered to move me to the support group
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  16. Post #16
    Gold Member
    xianlee's Avatar
    October 2007
    2,349 Posts
    Ideally you want apprenticeships with big tech companies, banks etc.


    I'm on an apprenticeship with a global technology company, and I started on 16k (250/week, about 8/$13hour) and they are paying fully for my degree alongside work, and I am expected to get quarterly/semi annual pay rises and opportunities for promotion (My roommate just got his first promotion and was bumped up to 20k, they expect after 5 years and the degree being completed we should be on 30-40k)


    Anyway people like to whine about it being too easy to get benefits in this country but I think it just depends on how much your local JSA people actually care. My step-brother was on JSA for a long long time since there is a bad shortage of work in my home area and that was quite soul destroying for him.
    This.. I'm currently on an apprenticeship.. 15 mins away from home [so not bad], 96 a week, 400 a month which isn't bad but my god.. there is no one in house for me to learn from so all of my course work is just done of my own knowledge.


    We are supposed to have a 3rd party IT guy helps us out and what not. He recently set up / coded a newsletter and hasn't even shown me how to import new images / send it out [the importing bit is probably easy].


    This is a small business btw and its just a sham.. I'm glad I'm not on the dole and complained to the apprentice place I'm with to find me another workplace as I'll complete this with no new knowledge except how Magento works.

  17. Post #17
    Gold Member
    a203xi's Avatar
    January 2005
    396 Posts
    Just accept your serfdom.
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  18. Post #18
    Gold Member
    xianlee's Avatar
    October 2007
    2,349 Posts
    double post

  19. Post #19
    Gishank's Avatar
    May 2009
    444 Posts
    I find it rather amusing that this thread cropped up today...

    On the 4th (Monday) I popped in to the Jobcentre to "sign-on" and spoke to my DEA, everything went fine except for when she tried to register on the system that I had attended my sign-on date. She said she'd pop an e-mail out and I should get my JSA as per usual as I am in "clean standing" on their system anyway. So I thought nothing of it until today when I received a letter dated the 1st of November from the Jobcentre informing me that because I am (apparently!) working 16+ hours a week I will no longer receive JSA (though implying I would still have to adhere to my agreement and apply for 10 jobs a week + "sign on").

    Spoiler - I don't have a job, despite spending the best part of my day submitting applications.

    It just goes to show how much of a mess the system is and the lack of communication that goes on.

  20. Post #20
    Gold Member
    RayvenQ's Avatar
    December 2004
    9,445 Posts
    ATOS do seem to try and downgrade you though i should have got in the support group but was put in the wrag i didn't bother appealing though because i dont have any trouble with my adviser i met her once when i was moved onto ESA she phones every 6 months and has offered to move me to the support group
    ATOS aren't even fucking subtle about it, all my previous medicals, I fulfilled the points required to qualify for the benefits, this year though however, despite having the answers the same (or in some cases more points qualifying than previously) I got a big fat ZERO points. Doesn';t help that ATOS is staffed with "doctors" who have retired from the fucking profession. Fuck that, it should be my GP doing the fucking examination, you know, the doctor who knows my entire fucking medical history and who has known me all my fucking life and so fucking knows whether or not I'm actually fit for work or not.

  21. Post #21
    Jsm
    "Belgium is pretty much a non-country"
    Jsm's Avatar
    June 2006
    7,923 Posts
    ATOS aren't even fucking subtle about it, all my previous medicals, I fulfilled the points required to qualify for the benefits, this year though however, despite having the answers the same (or in some cases more points qualifying than previously) I got a big fat ZERO points. Doesn';t help that ATOS is staffed with "doctors" who have retired from the fucking profession. Fuck that, it should be my GP doing the fucking examination, you know, the doctor who knows my entire fucking medical history and who has known me all my fucking life and so fucking knows whether or not I'm actually fit for work or not.
    The problem with your GP doing it is that they might be biased. Personally I cannot see how that would be a bad thing IMO though, your regular doctor surely knows you and knows what you need better than someone who is seeing hundreds of people and trying to stick to a very strict criteria that poorly explains the descriptors.

  22. Post #22
    Gold Member
    RayvenQ's Avatar
    December 2004
    9,445 Posts
    Also one thing I discovered is on the forms, don't pick the fucking option where you give them more indepth information on your condition, because they don't fucking read it anyway.

    The exam was a pile of shit anyway, all he did was re ask me the questions on the form and did a physical "examination" that was all of a minute long. And apparantley because I got up a couple of times during the exam, that apparatnley meant I was fit for a full days work (then again, if i hadn't gotten up they'd have probably said "oh you can sit so you can work")
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  23. Post #23
    Gold Member
    JustExtreme's Avatar
    April 2007
    7,104 Posts
    The whole jobcentre and dwp is a joke

  24. Post #24
    I'LL NEVER STOP
    Midas22's Avatar
    July 2008
    2,622 Posts
    I literally gave up with the whole jobseekers shit.

    It was such a shit system

    thankfully I managed to find a job with 30 remaining of my overdraft
    Its meant to be a shit system. Its meant to be the most fucking inconvenient thing ever to actually encourage people to get a job.
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  25. Post #25
    What if we as a nation came to realize that the quest 4 empire eventually destroys all great nations
    sloppy_joes's Avatar
    November 2006
    14,624 Posts
    Its meant to be a shit system. Its meant to be the most fucking inconvenient thing ever to actually encourage people to get a job.
    heaven forbid we actually help people that need help instead of wasting their time and giving them terrible anxiety.
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  26. Post #26
    I'LL NEVER STOP
    Midas22's Avatar
    July 2008
    2,622 Posts
    heaven forbid we actually help people that need help instead of wasting their time and giving them terrible anxiety.
    They're unemployed, what time is there to waste?
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  27. Post #27
    What if we as a nation came to realize that the quest 4 empire eventually destroys all great nations
    sloppy_joes's Avatar
    November 2006
    14,624 Posts
    They're unemployed, what time is there to waste?
    they could be
    1) helping the community
    2) improving their skillset through education or practice
    3) looking for jobs

    etc.

    kind of pretentious to assume that simply because someone is unemployed that their time doesn't have value.
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  28. Post #28
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    June 2005
    15,081 Posts
    Its meant to be a shit system. Its meant to be the most fucking inconvenient thing ever to actually encourage people to get a job.
    What no. They offer no real help in finding a job.
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  29. Post #29
    I'LL NEVER STOP
    Midas22's Avatar
    July 2008
    2,622 Posts
    What no. They offer no real help in finding a job.
    The only thing they did for me tbh was print off a list of people looking to employ in my area...

  30. Post #30
    Gold Member
    RayvenQ's Avatar
    December 2004
    9,445 Posts
    Its meant to be a shit system. Its meant to be the most fucking inconvenient thing ever to actually encourage people to get a job.
    Which would be fine, if there were a number of jobs equal to those that are unemployed, but guess what, there fucking isn't. Plus it's not going to help when the DWP is subsidising labour, sending people on "placements" and stuff at places like fucking poundworld, where you end up working for sub minimum wage, which in a regular job would be as illegal as fuck, but because of the way they fudge it, and have you there as a placement and not an employee they can get away with it.

    My mother is also on it, due to medical reasons, but they don't half do some silly shit, sending her a "ready to work" program as if she's fresh out of high school, as opposed to the actual reality that she worked every freaking day of her life, and is off not due to being unemployable or anything but because she can't physically work.
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  31. Post #31
    The only reason I'm Bronze V 0LP is because I have no runes!
    FezianEmperor's Avatar
    August 2012
    941 Posts
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  32. Post #32
    What if we as a nation came to realize that the quest 4 empire eventually destroys all great nations
    sloppy_joes's Avatar
    November 2006
    14,624 Posts
    I'm glad this is happening. Less worthless people in the world and makes people force themselves to work or die.

    Of course, you can always come to Norway. We need more leechers.
    tbh i just pulled myself up by my bootstraps
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  33. Post #33
    I make graphic designs and lua errors (◡‿◡✿) ‏
    NiandraLades's Avatar
    January 2013
    2,576 Posts
    Its meant to be a shit system. Its meant to be the most fucking inconvenient thing ever to actually encourage people to get a job.
    Realistically, this is always going to be a problem. Surely it's better offer a system that is helpful and encouraging than one that is poor and frustrating? People are going to be more willing and compiling if you aren't being patronizing and dehumanizing.
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  34. Post #34
    Gold Member
    TheCreeper's Avatar
    April 2012
    620 Posts
    I'm glad this is happening. Less worthless people in the world and makes people force themselves to work or die.

    Of course, you can always come to Norway. We need more leechers.
    I don't think im reading that correctly. Are you advocating this?

  35. Post #35
    Gold Member
    RayvenQ's Avatar
    December 2004
    9,445 Posts
    I'm glad this is happening. Less worthless people in the world and makes people force themselves to work.
    Yes, let's just determine who deserves to live based on whether or not they can get employment! While there are people who abuse the system, making people "force" themselves to work whewn the jobs aren't fucking there is a moronic sentiment. Because people deserve to be put in a poverty trap thats incredibly hard to get out of just because getting a job is troublesome!

    The system how it is now is flat out wrong, which is sad, because years ago the jobcentre used to be about actually getting you into work and supporting you financially (admittedly not by much though) until such time as you got a job. They used to set up appointments and interviews, help you with stuff you needed, assign you to courses to help, but now they're just going through the motions and sanctioning everyone they fucking can so the government can say "hey look we made it so theres less people on benefits" (without actually revealling the real reason is because they kick people off)

    Ironically, if the JobCentre worked how it should, it'd not only be cheaper but also help stimulate the UK in terms of economics.
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  36. Post #36
    Gold Member
    Zeke129's Avatar
    July 2007
    41,741 Posts
    I'm glad this is happening. Less worthless people in the world and makes people force themselves to work or die.

    Of course, you can always come to Norway. We need more leechers.
    There obviously aren't fewer worthless people in the world if you're still posting

    Norway is doing amazing economically, it's obviously not as big of a problem as whatever conservative rag you read thinks it is
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  37. Post #37
    Gold Member
    RayvenQ's Avatar
    December 2004
    9,445 Posts
    Even if you get put on a 16 hour placement at somewhere like poundland, you'd be making somewhere like 30% less than the fucking legally mandated minimum wage, and thats even without the costs of travel and other stuff factored in.

    Lets say you have to buy a bus ticket for travelling to and from your work place, and its 3.50 for a return, thats spending 25% of the already pitifully small amount of money you get on travel alone, then you've got things lke the cost of extra laundry, and crap like that, even fucking buying stuff for a packed fucking lunch is fucking hard enough.

    Put another way, if I were to lose my benefits, I'd be fucking dead within a few months, or in prison, as I'd lose my home and be forced onto the streets and either die of illness, starvation/dehydration. I was homeless once for 7 months, it very nearly fucking killed me. Losing benefits for me isn't just some guy losing what people often imagine to be luxury, it'd be a fucking death sentence.
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  38. Post #38
    The only reason I'm Bronze V 0LP is because I have no runes!
    FezianEmperor's Avatar
    August 2012
    941 Posts
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  39. Post #39
    Gold Member
    TheCreeper's Avatar
    April 2012
    620 Posts
    I'm glad this is happening. Less worthless people in the world and makes people force themselves to work or die.

    Of course, you can always come to Norway. We need more leechers.
    You know what? The government should create "work" camps where all those benefit lechers who are like stealing from the government should goto because they should like work or die if they like have no job because they worthless people if they cant find job. Dont matter about the current job market in their area, they worthless people.
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  40. Post #40
    The only reason I'm Bronze V 0LP is because I have no runes!
    FezianEmperor's Avatar
    August 2012
    941 Posts
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