[No Quarter]

garry posted:

I don't know why you would bring business models in.

This isn't a business decision. It's a game decision. It fits the game perfectly. Maybe not the game you're playing right now - but the game we're heading towards.

From a logical standpoint, the purpose of the experiment is to see how it affects the game, right?

But from a scientific method standpoint, if the factors that are supposed to exist don't yet, your experiment is ill-timed, that's all.

It really should come into play later on to be an effective experiment.

[BloodyC]

In normal server all your stuff is safe but your sleeping bag isnt, so in the sleeper server i think your sleeping bag should be indestructible but your stuff is at risk. At least you can still have your base to rebuild your supplies.

[Ghuton]

Like i said before - I dont like the full concept of the idea, but its a experiment, so its fine. I just dont understand why they are testing it now, with a lot o advantage to Big Groups, without a proper wipe before the experiment, without good defenses to bases, DDOS, etc...

I can change my opinion about the Sleepers feature - im 50/50 right now -, but i really think this isnt the right time to experiment it, and then the experiment can just be invalid, cuz a lot of players can just be annoyed about the feature, and dislike it at this point.

[Jperky23]

Okay i love this idea but the game is not ready for it. A start for getting ready for this "sleeping" addition is getting rid of the hackers. This is a hackers wet dream to be able to noclip into a base and kill the sleeper and raid his gear. Not to mention this ruins the PvE server considering people play on there to avoid raiders,hackers, and any kind of pvp. With this new sleeping addition to the PvE server i say it should not be added to this server because you can kill players when it is suppose to be a NON PVP SERVER. And I can name plenty of raiders on the pve server which i know is not a rule so you cannot ban someone for it, but it is still bad for the people who want to avoid getting their stuff stolen. If we wanted that risk we would just play on the pvp servers. So with that being said, I think it should be taken off the pve server. Just my suggestion

[Sharia]

TOR posted:

I completely understand all the points you make. And personally, I am undecided what I think of the issue - nevertheless, I'm seeing a crossroad.

There appears to be a divide in what game you wish to create, versus the game parts of the community wants. Forgive me for putting words into your mouth, but you seem to aim at creating a hardcore survival game where raiding is one of the main incentives, realism is important and playing with friends is essential to succeed. Parts of the community on the other hand, may not want a hyper-realistic, brutal to the core game that forces you to begin from pretty much scratch every time you log in. Now, as the main game developer/designer, you have a bigger picture for what you want to implement. But to me, the average tester, I'm struggling to see how all of the traps, defenses and so forth is going to be successful.

To me, it will just create an even larger learning curve, where until you can build these defenses, large groups or even solo raiders will raid the heck out of you. Unless you find friends to help you. I understand how you want people to play cooperatively, and if that is the direction you want to take it, then all power to you - it's your game. Personally, I love playing solo - and don't have the equipment to use voice chat, which is pretty much essential to play cooperatively in this game.

Can I suggest to you that raiding doesn't need to be the only thing that makes this game fun? Sure, it's fun for a lot of people - but just as many people love building, surviving, and the occasional gunfight. The risk of losing all your items is great - but it's already there, and needs to be, as it creates an intense atmosphere which is a huge part of immersive gameplay. And the sleeper idea is creative yet great - I just think the negatives brought up in this thread outweigh the positive.

At the end of the day, it's your game. You are in charge of it all, and you may have the vision to bring to pass stuff we can't see happening from our perspective. Make sure you make the wisest choice, weighing the communities words versus your own core beliefs.

EDIT: Rephrased to 'parts of the community', as it's obvious I don't speak for the entire community here, but nevertheless parts of it.

Well said ....I agree 100%! :)

[Tashohnie]

I love this idea, I love the gritty feel this adds to game.

[Sharia]

garry posted:

What should we do to discourage people from working together and playing the game a lot?

No just add "casual need not apply" to purchase agreement!

[Tonnan]

Lizzipoos posted:

I do not like it at all. This only benefits the "no-lifers" who stay up all night and already manage to get all the airdrops and offline-raid people. Now they will just get even more loot and people will just get crushed even more. This is bad and brings even more of a balance issue to the game.

Edit: I am obviously talking about when you are logging off to go to bed etc. I am not talking about combatlogging or logging out with all your stuff when you are getting raided. For this, this is perfect. But other than that it isn't

" Now they will just get even more loot and people will just get crushed even more. This is bad and brings even more of a balance issue to the game. " i quote what you said there its not like if by having more stuff home in your crates it makes you better better somehow?

The real issue lies in the ppl who game after game never learn that there is always gonna be pvp take a m4 and learn to defend yourself!

[RogueNerdy]

Suggestion to not have sleepers on PVE,
some lucky guy somehow killed me, logged out in the middle of the road, came
back matter of minutes and I was dead, he won 5 days of work, full inventory.
Back to grind :P

Overall from what Ive heard from devs about end game,
sleepers is a good start. Keep it up..
Looking forward to test more...

[KiltJoy]

As a Casual player without a Mic, I'm forced to be a loner by KOS. Resources are guarded. I barely got into Blue-print hunting once, only to be reset, still without a Steel Door. KOS-Gangs sweep through griefing everything they can. I wake up dead every login.

#Perhaps making it harder to generate bullet ammo, they'd spray less, or at least have to spend more time manufacturing. More steps in the process. Arrows could increase process but be recoverable after firing. Your enemy can send it back.

#I can not make a safe place to log-off. If not a safe-zone, a way to buy protection from the Clans. A way to enter into neutral status so they don't just murder you when you approach and loot you anyway. Maybe team/village/country affiliations with limited or no hurt (like, People on one side of Mountain live around one resource pool are a village with no hurt among the people, and against People on other side of mountain) Perhaps one side has more Wood than Rocks & the other reversed. I want to be a part of a team/community but my PC equipment is limited.

[Devoldo]

KiltJoy posted:

As a Casual player without a Mic, I'm forced to be a loner by KOS. Resources are guarded. I barely got into Blue-print hunting once, only to be reset, still without a Steel Door. KOS-Gangs sweep through griefing everything they can. I wake up dead every login.

#Perhaps making it harder to generate bullet ammo, they'd spray less, or at least have to spend more time manufacturing. More steps in the process. Arrows could increase process but be recoverable after firing. Your enemy can send it back.

#I can not make a safe place to log-off. If not a safe-zone, a way to buy protection from the Clans. A way to enter into neutral status so they don't just murder you when you approach and loot you anyway. Maybe team/village/country affiliations with limited or no hurt (like, People on one side of Mountain live around one resource pool are a village with no hurt among the people, and against People on other side of mountain) Perhaps one side has more Wood than Rocks & the other reversed. I want to be a part of a team/community but my PC equipment is limited.

Exactly why "sleepers" is an extremely foolish and lazy idea. I could understand and even support a 15-20 second timer when logging off to prevent combat loggers, and even support the inability to log out if a player is within close proximity to you. But for your body to remain on the server with no way to protect your items (we can craft a bloody M4, but not a simple safe?), how on earth would you be able to play without a massive "pansy" group?

Maybe this is the point though, and if it is then I for one do not like the direction this game is going in. Sure I run with a group of 6-7 friends, but they aren't always online all the time, nor do we plan on raiding houses constantly for fear of attracting unwanted attention. I just do not like this idea, nor will I play in a server that has this sort of "feature".

[Warchild]

I love the sleeper idea. Here is something that can add an additional level of security to play though..perhaps to balance it out a bit.

A craftable safe of varying strength. The safe would require varying amounts of C4 to blow open depending on how its crafted.

My thought is that if you required the exact same mats as C4 to craft a safe + metals for example, then the owner has an opportunity to increase the cost of a raid.

So for example

Level 1: Safe holds 4 slots and has the equivalent cost of 2 C4 to make. It requires 2 C4 to blow open unless your the owner.

Level 2: Safe holds 6 slots and has the equivalent cost of 3 C4 to make. It requires 3 C4 to blow open unless your the owner.

Level 3: Safe holds 10 slots and has the equivalent cost of 6 C4 to make. It requires 6 C4 to blow open unless your the owner.

This would cause
A) Raiders enter a raid with C4 so that defenders, if successful, would have more to gain.
B) Defenders would have to invest in deciding how much they want to protect items. Sure they could have a bunch of 2 C4 safes....or they could get a bigger 6 C4 safe which holds slightly less items items...
C) It would be more viable to have a smaller base with higher level safes in play...A 1 metal door base could now just cost 2 C4 to blow...or it could cost 8 to fully loot it....and then...is it really worth it?

Thoughts?

[LilBabyStril]

Warchild posted:

I love the sleeper idea. Here is something that can add an additional level of security to play though..perhaps to balance it out a bit.

A craftable safe of varying strength. The safe would require varying amounts of C4 to blow open depending on how its crafted.

My thought is that if you required the exact same mats as C4 to craft a safe + metals for example, then the owner has an opportunity to increase the cost of a raid.

So for example

Level 1: Safe holds 4 slots and has the equivalent cost of 2 C4 to make. It requires 2 C4 to blow open unless your the owner.

Level 2: Safe holds 6 slots and has the equivalent cost of 3 C4 to make. It requires 3 C4 to blow open unless your the owner.

Level 3: Safe holds 10 slots and has the equivalent cost of 6 C4 to make. It requires 6 C4 to blow open unless your the owner.

This would cause
A) Raiders enter a raid with C4 so that defenders, if successful, would have more to gain.
B) Defenders would have to invest in deciding how much they want to protect items. Sure they could have a bunch of 2 C4 safes....or they could get a bigger 6 C4 safe which holds slightly less items items...
C) It would be more viable to have a smaller base with higher level safes in play...A 1 metal door base could now just cost 2 C4 to blow...or it could cost 8 to fully loot it....and then...is it really worth it?

Thoughts?

I love the hell out of this idea. I wish I could expand upon that, but I can't.

[nuttyboffin]

garry posted:

I don't know why you would bring business models in.

This isn't a business decision. It's a game decision. It fits the game perfectly. Maybe not the game you're playing right now - but the game we're heading towards.

While this is great and all, and i look forward to it....

I doubt i would ever get to that stage due to being killed constantly.

Only large groups would ever get to this stage, and that will just give them the tech
to cause even more greif to the new players etc.

Im rather fed up as i can never get to a higher level in the game with better stuff, simply because other people kill me, or on the PvE server, people take the stuff from your body...

Il come back and play when i can actually enjoy it without 'restarting' every time i join.

[Cookie-]

garry posted:

What should we do to discourage people from working together and playing the game a lot?

Perhaps a Stamina meter? That will recharge when the player is offline.
The stamina will enable the player to run, aim more accurate, the pace you are crafting things in (longer crafting time when the stamina runs out), gathering of materials won't be as efficient and things like that.
You can still play the game, but you won't be a challange to other player with stamina left.

[StryfeKhaos]

Since no one has been able to get on the server I play on, this sleeper mechanism has turned out not to be as problematic for me as I thought it might be.

[HaKuRa]

i love sleepers servs! More pvp, more interisting raids, you know you don't use c4 for nothing ! And no combat logger , oh yeah that's amazing !

[Zanery115]

So now not only can I die through a wall of my shack, I now die while I am logged off because I need to go to bed?

[smkymtnman]

As an adult with a wife and kids and responsibilities, sometimes something comes up and I'll have to log out quickly. If I'm out hunting resources or something when that happens, I can't always take the 10 or 15 minutes to walk back to my house.

[swisherFTW]

i love the sleeper idea it makes it more realistic and way more fun to raid people i mean c'mon you think in real life if someone is breaking in and your sleeping you think your going to disappear??? no your going to get fucking killed lol :P so make better house plans or hide in the dense wilderness where no one is! or just know your going to get raided at some point or another! so be ready!

[Famer]

thumbs up for sleepers

[IseeyouPewpew]

smkymtnman posted:

As an adult with a wife and kids and responsibilities, sometimes something comes up and I'll have to log out quickly. If I'm out hunting resources or something when that happens, I can't always take the 10 or 15 minutes to walk back to my house.

Amen. Very few here understand the crapstorm that would come when the wife asks you to come put away the groceries and you yell, "Give me 15 minutes, hon, so I can get back to my base and log out so my sleeper doesn't get jumped."

[swisherFTW]

well then if you dont want to get raped in your sleep maybe move to the non-sleeper server?!?!? think of that

[Cheese V]

keep it up Gary, the sleeping servers are the best

[IseeyouPewpew]

swisherFTW posted:

well then if you dont want to get raped in your sleep maybe move to the non-sleeper server?!?!? think of that

Which one is that? All of the servers got sleeper mode turned on, even the PvE server, which is causing some heartburn for the ones who play there. Course, with the current state of the servers, I am not too worried about it right now.

[lmaguire99]

scottieg posted:

I love it, especially the "hotel" idea. Although I wonder how effective it would be to have one run by players. I can picture a small group of NPC soldiers you can hire to guard you. They'd be effective against most solo raids but a dedicated attack by a clan could overpower them.

this will never be implemented in a game like rust someone will end up exploiting or glitching the npcs and the hotel idea is nice but the residents will never pay up and will probably be infiltrating the hotel and raiding it