Register
Events
Popular
More
Post #41Better idea would be that, There is 10-30seconds disconnecting time, if you just close browser your character is there so long when timer goes 0, and when your game is loaded you will see game after 5seconds you are loaded. You cannot move while you are disconnecting.
-
-
Yeah that was exactly the idea that i got but i was thinking about a delay like 60 seconds instead because 30 seconds is too short
-
Indeed, it is a bad idea. This feature forces people to play rust or warry to loose everything wile they are buissy with the "real life". Aside of the thing with big groups versus small groupr or lone wolfes, I dislike the idea of beeing forced to play onlinegames this way. It means that your real life has to suffer if you want to achive something and this is unexeptable for me and porberly many other people. I personally have better things to do than playing videogames 24/7.
-
I understand everyone's opinion but the thing is you have the choice to play on it or not.....
To be honest i really like the sleeper servers and i am sure some others do too. I could understand if they completely took out the regular servers and kept the sleepers, But you have to choice to choose any server you like.
-
I think "Sleepers" can be a really good improvement, but, on the other side, i'm agreeing with theo on many points..
Can't we imagine 2 servers versions, one with this game logic, and the other without ?
In the normal version, in order to make looting more interesting:
Can't we imagine a smaller personnal inventory, and a craftable backpack system (This is working fine in DayZ and there, even if the clan is disconnected, you can find loot in the tents, and trust me, when you go offline in this game, you take everything you can!)
In the sleeper version, in order to make looting more difficult:
Add some burried cache ? Hard to find, with few loot, but if you die, you know where you can easily find some stuff...
Add the possibility to trap a box/door with C4 ? other device ?
Add a irl alert (eg. Mail idk) when a special door is destroyed....it will warn you as if you had installed a bell next to your bed
In fact, we might think about what we could put in place if we want to be woken up in such a situation IRL
As I write this, I realize that I would prefer a Sleepers Version with lots of changes than the "normal" one...
Anyway, this is a really innovative gameplay idea! You are making a great job
-
I find that putting a day is super crowded with stuff disconnects the night of the coup many C4 used for anything a raid empty house!
I do not speak English well sorry
-
I think it would be nice to make c4 crafting even hardier instead on the sleepers server
-
I agree, it is a bad idea in general and especially to deal with the problem that people refuse to use boxes instead of their inventory. Escpecially because I dislike it, if games force me to play them and let my real life suffer from it.
-
A Better Idea.. If you Have a Player around you of a radius of 10-30m. you cant disconnect and i also like the idea of the 30 second before Disconnecting. Sleepers is the WORSE idea EVER!
-
So basicly if ur friend builds right next to you, you cant disconnect anymore cuz of the radius thing. That just makes no sense mate :)
-
Building houses, creating storage boxes, creating defences means nothing if you don't actually stay in there. If you just jump off the server and take all your inventory with you.. your house might as well dissapear too.
All the points you make are things that you need to solve yourself. The game is meant to be harsh. You are going to get rushed and have all your stuff stolen. The people attacking you are in exactly the same position - there's nothing stopping you from rushing them and stealing their stuff.
Complaining because people play the game better than you is not a reason to stop evolving the game. It's our job to create these problems and then help you find solutions. Too easy to invade your base? So maybe we need to look at better defences, maybe you need to make friends and build a stronghold.
-
Can you explain me how the fact that playing 24h/24 like a no life on a game is a better way to play to it?
EDIT: i'm sad to see that you don't want to listen to the community. I love this game and i think we would like to make it better with you.
I know you may have worked hard on this new feature but it is a problem for a lot of people. Just by adding those kind of things you are
going to make the game unplayable for a lot of people.
-
I can agree with everything you said.
The Dev's idea is very nice, but as they said it is an experiment!
In my opinion, they should keep it so that when you log out, your body would be sleeping for 5 to 10 minutes.
Not the whole time when your are disconnect, but only 5\10 minutes!
In my opinion 5m is enough.
This would easily prevent combat logging and would not create much drama about off-line raids.
-
You're a bad alpha tester if your first response to a potential new system is to make a petition to have it removed. You have the wrong mindset.
Edited:
Also, EVE Online does this, once your ship gets to be a certain size (Titans). The ships are in space at all times, even when you're offline, and can be destroyed, albeit with great difficulty, while you're sleeping.
-
I completely understand all the points you make. And personally, I am undecided what I think of the issue - nevertheless, I'm seeing a crossroad.
There appears to be a divide in what game you wish to create, versus the game parts of the community wants. Forgive me for putting words into your mouth, but you seem to aim at creating a hardcore survival game where raiding is one of the main incentives, realism is important and playing with friends is essential to succeed. Parts of the community on the other hand, may not want a hyper-realistic, brutal to the core game that forces you to begin from pretty much scratch every time you log in. Now, as the main game developer/designer, you have a bigger picture for what you want to implement. But to me, the average tester, I'm struggling to see how all of the traps, defenses and so forth is going to be successful.
To me, it will just create an even larger learning curve, where until you can build these defenses, large groups or even solo raiders will raid the heck out of you. Unless you find friends to help you. I understand how you want people to play cooperatively, and if that is the direction you want to take it, then all power to you - it's your game. Personally, I love playing solo - and don't have the equipment to use voice chat, which is pretty much essential to play cooperatively in this game.
Can I suggest to you that raiding doesn't need to be the only thing that makes this game fun? Sure, it's fun for a lot of people - but just as many people love building, surviving, and the occasional gunfight. The risk of losing all your items is great - but it's already there, and needs to be, as it creates an intense atmosphere which is a huge part of immersive gameplay. And the sleeper idea is creative yet great - I just think the negatives brought up in this thread outweigh the positive.
At the end of the day, it's your game. You are in charge of it all, and you may have the vision to bring to pass stuff we can't see happening from our perspective. Make sure you make the wisest choice, weighing the communities words versus your own core beliefs.
EDIT: Rephrased to 'parts of the community', as it's obvious I don't speak for the entire community here, but nevertheless parts of it.
-
"The community" which me and all my clanmates are part of find the direction of this game to be headed the right way.
We love it garry, keep on going - this game is obviously not for this guy, he'd probably be better of playing sims 3.
-
In a game I want to design... I envisioned having your character when logged off become a patrolling NPC. They would have higher than normal combat effectiveness with a percentage of loot lost/gained due to certain variables. I think something like that would be most ideal.
-
Gerry, my concern is not the fact that it would make my or other players life hader and I do not complain about it, because some one would be playing better than my doe to this.
Yes, the game must evolve and this problem that people take all there stuff befor logging off must be solved, but not this way.
May major concern is that this feature has a potantial to support video game addiction. By all means of making the game batter, in witch I would like to see it envolve and I am willing to support you and your team on that journey, this is an unexcaptable way.
Edit:
That would be much better.
-
Bringing in sleepers is a great idea, should be on by default on all !
From what we have talked and learned from devs on whats to come, ties in perfect
for the end game.
Its expected to have lot of hackers, missuses of glitches etc on pvp
and constant abuse greif 'ng on pve, bit discouraging for many to keep testing.
Gather most will be taken care of entering steam.
A lot of rage and misunderstanding is partly from lack of information.
As a few of us, have gotten a more in-depth understanding on whats to come,
we have a clearer picture how the game will actually look like in the end.
I would suggest a more in-depth faq, timeline or outline post of the end product
so they can see and get a pulse, would tone down rage posts a bit.
Keep it up, looking forward for whats to come.
-
I do like the idea and all that, and the last bit with ppl playing better then u, yea might be, but then if u read what Primuspalus write here : http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1316857 there is a HUGH problem that need to be addressed before sleepers would be good, atleast how i see it, cause no matter how well u barricade/lock yourself in, that wont stop the hacker just walking in shot you take your stuff and leave.
-
sleepers makes it 100% easier to grief, you can just box people in that logged off, blow the door and doorway and put a wall and you ruined his life
-
I think they should add rest to the game so players have to log off for a little bit so their character can sleep, this way players cant play like 24 hours and go on endless raid streaks
-
how bout....after you disconnect, you're toon fall asleep for like an hour, then you're toon totally disappear, that would discourage people disconnect with all the goodies while raided...sorry if that already been spoken but there is too much post and i wanna play :P
-
Please for the love of god dont add turrets and laser anything. Garry please dont. If people didn't think m4s made sense why would automated turrets? keep it grounded in reality.
-
They should also add a group/clan system, just sayin.
-
While I don't know the completed vision for this game, I do know that I have spent a lot of my time in the past few days either playing Rust or thinking about what I'll be doing next. In that time, a lot has happened that I am certain has happened to others in the game. I've died. A lot. I've had nothing but a rock and bandages and, surprise, someone in kevlar shoots me down.
Does this discourage me from playing? No. That being said, I've toyed around on the UK sleepers experiment server, because I got to thinking about it. How often do I go into someone's house with my hatchet and there's nothing inside? A lot. That is wasted time and food, food I can't get back without more potential risk of getting killed. You could say it is a risk of playing the game, gambling on if it is worth breaking into that house or not, but that makes no sense. If I come up to some place that has a wooden door intact, I should have at least a decent chance of finding something to improve my survival.
Now, while I can agree that sleepers could be a dangerous implementation, I do not think that this is going to be something that's going to contribute to game addiction. I think this is just an excuse for those that are leaning on the system of taking all key items into their inventory before leaving. Game addiction can be caused by anything, because, much like any mental dependency, you can become addicted to anything. Does the threat of game addiction stop companies like Blizzard from continuing to put out World of Warcraft content? No. We're all adults here. Let's leave social issues out and focus on the real concern.
Let's everyone remember that this is an alpha game. This is, by no means, a completed game and will be going through some changes. Some you are going to like and some you aren't. In an effort to promote realism, I believe that sleepers makes sense. Are there some balancing issues that need to be worked out? I'd say so, given that I joined onto US Central within a few minutes of it coming up and I could hear gunshots in the distance. Let's just wait and see, since sleepers aren't a forced implementation yet.
-
And how do we do if we are on vacations and we can't connect for like one week?
-
Sleepers will not be the main feature server-type. . .EVER. That isn't garry's intent.
-
Perhaps you will have to depend on the kindness of strangers? Create a hidden cache somewhere of your best items, just in case? Make friends in the game that are trustworthy?
Let's remember here. This is a game. Every time I've died, I've managed to get my stuff back, if not more, by learning from the experience.
-
We need to think of a solution to stop people from taking their stuff and logging off, but the sleepers experiment wouldn't get great for it. Maybe for combat loggers, and that it could last 1 min or so, but not when logging off.
-
well sleeping is part of surviving it makes it more challenging
-
I don't like theoretical reasons as to why it won't work. We're trying it. That's the only way to tell.
If we made decisions based on assumptions Rust wouldn't even exist.
-
What if there was a system to where when you log out your items were to be dropped on the ground? Or maybe the items in your hot bar are the only items you can keep. Along with this you can keep this "ghost" idea where the character stays behind for another 60 seconds after the person disconnects.
-
Gary, we all love your game but that's sad that you doesn't want to hear the community feedback.
I'm a good customer (i bought gary's mod too) and i love it.
I would like to do the best of my possible to help you to improve your game with all the community, we know that's your game, we know you can do anything you want to it too. But that's just some suggestions about the new features. You can take them or not, that's your choice.
Thanks for your comprehension
-
I think logging out should make you go to "sleep" for maybe 10-30 mins instead of all night. Then people have a fair chance to kill you and you have a chance to get offline, before a clan wipes the server as they do every day.
-
I see this feature as a marmite. You either love it or hate it.
Which is why I think it's important that if we get the option to host dedicated servers that this be a feature that can be turned on/off. If it stays as official facepunch servers only (which I think would be a great shame - though that's an entirely different debate), then there should be a variety of different setups to appeal to everyone. Personally I think the point of the PvE server is silly, but I understand and respect that others enjoy playing like that and it's narrow-minded of me to rule it out as a playstyle because it's not my cup of tea.
Afterall, the PvE server had experimental slapped on it before the last wipe, and the game is Alpha. The sleeper is also experimental. We are testing a far from finished product here.
I really disagree with the OP and I think the "sleeper" has a lot of potential and is a great idea. Having said that, I also agree it's not ideal in the current state of the game and I think it's going to be easily written off as a horrible idea because of that. This thread: http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1316807 addresses some of the issues currently and offers some solutions i.e. traps to protect yourself.
This feature isn't for those in the community which get upset because they get raided by a bigger group (online or offline). If you for example logout of the sleeper server and are worried during your day to day life about if you've been brutally violated while offline then I really don't think you've got the right mindset.
For me the fun isn't from HODORing lots of stuff and stroking myself whilst looking in my storage boxes, it's the "startup". You know, those first like 48 hours of gameplay where it feels like kill or be killed.
When I have a steady supply of C4, kevlar and M4s the game to me gets pretty dull. I'm one of those guys which apparently should die of cancer, in a fire, by monkeys abusing my butt and lots of other strangely creative deaths. I do kinda wish people would focus that hateful creativity elsewhere instead of wasting their time trying to hurt my feelings over a game.
When you get in that position (and I've played in a mix of organised groups consisting of 3-15 players) it becomes boring very quickly once you hit that "end". The game literally turns into an arena deathmatch, and lets be honest, the gun play though enjoyable is point and click. Doesn't exactly require lots of individual skill (though team play is important and that's where the skill is).
When I'm at that point I don't need to give a second thought about who i'm attacking because if I die it's whatever, and chances are I'm going to drop that sucker as two headshots kills a kevlar guy; just need to pick the right moment. /Yawn - gets old quick.
The excitement and thrill for me personally is when you've got very little which makes that very little matter so much. I like it when I die and it actually hurts my progression. I like taking risks and being rewarded but I also like taking a risk and it going wrong. The most fun I've had was being the underdogs of the server against a much bigger, much better organised, more experienced and better geared group that was running over everyone including us.
You know.. those times when you've only got a P250, small house and you're questioning yourself on a hill looking down at three guys in cloth putting their walls on their new foundations, and you're asking yourself if it's worthwhile trying to engage in a dialogue with them or trying to gun all of them down and make it away with their stuff.
Well, usually the gunning them down works pretty terribly when suddenly a bunch of doors open on nearby towers and you're gunned down like a rabid dog. But that's the fun. Either way I digress, my point is the fun is the fight to survive. Losing stuff is fun, no matter how far progressed you are - yes, being killed while naked with nothing is an annoyance, but that's simply because ammo, guns etc are too easily accessible. That's an issue with the current state of the game, sleeper experiment or not.
My group has self wiped a couple of times simply because it's more enjoyable. Maybe we're masochists, or maybe we have a different mindset. If someone rolls over me, I don't get mad or curse, I set out to return the favor.
Now I'm not saying this sleeper feature should be rolled out to all servers or be a fixed feature of the game at all - now that imo would be silly. Offering a variety of ways to play is key here. Everyone likes different things and the game should be able to be played in a variety of ways. If I put the time into raiding someone, or if someone puts the time into raiding me then it should be very worthwhile. They shouldn't just find empty chests.
Now yes, I get it. C4 is way too easy to get currently, especially for bigger groups / groups that play hell of a lot more. If you control the airdrops a few times then you'll be swimming in C4. Though once again, that's an issue with the current state of the alpha.
Infact.. most of the issues with the "sleeper" being bought up stems from issues with the game in its current state i.e. it's stupid because hackers can just no clip into your house and kill you sleeping. Well screw me sideways and call me bessy, if that's part of your best reasoning for removing it then what's the point in playing the game anyway? A hacker can just no clip and kill you after you login. It's not hard to see who logs in then TP to them, slaughter them, take everything. That's a technicality that needs to be dealt with, and the game is in alpha. I'm sure they're working on better anti-cheat methods and I'm glad the hackers are being so obvious and vocal because it forces the developers to do something about it.
Another example, C4 being to easy to make so someone who plays a lot can just raid you while you're offline and kill you. How do you even know that C4 is going to be in the game in three weeks?
Maybe Garry and crew have already decided they'll be removing C4 in its current implementation and in place implementing home made explosives. These explosives could be really really difficult to make, hard to transport and have potential of backfiring.
Raiding needs to have high investment and high risk, but also big rewards. Logging off with the majority of your valuables just doesn't seem right and I've found it a chore to have to take / place items back and forwards between chests. I've found myself logging out during a raid rather then fighting because of gear. It's stupid. I should be fighting for my life, going out like scarface, not logging off like a girl just to spite the raiders. As far as I'm aware the game isn't meant to be about hording everything in a safe place. If someone invests a lot into trying to ruin my day then good on them. I'll pay them back in due time.
Lets pretend there's no box exploits and people can't just build normal building parts up to your other floors and instead need to use ladders (which can be destroyed fairly easy by the defenders - though that doesn't exactly help if you're offline of course), so you intentionally build an open window on the top so they ladder up to it (easy breach point). They find a door to blow that goes into what looks like to be a storage room. They open one of the chests in that room then boom, guy dies to some sort of wire tripped explosive, maybe there's a cobra in the box - who knows, I'm throwing random thoughts off the top of my head out there.
Basically, they've breached into a Trap room that you've intentionally placed to lure raiders. The raiders had no idea. That's being creative. Imagine trip wires, and all other kind of traps you could setup. Imagine you can poison food so they take your food and end up dying themselves - now that's some karma for you.
Now what's to stop a group just setting off all those traps and relooting their corpses? Well depending on the type of damage and where that damage was placed, items on the player could be damaged / destroyed (taking a leaf out of the new feature mentioned for DayZ Standalone - this has already been bought up as well). If you've got C4 on you and you get hit by an explosive or take a bullet hit.. well, potential boom. Everything on you could be destroyed.
Though I have strayed off topic at points, it is all kind of relative to each other as the current game state affects how the "sleeper" experiment works, but the potential is there. What I'm trying to really dig at is it's very shortsighted and narrow minded to write off this idea before it has even had a chance to be properly realized. Having said that, I still think that it shouldn't be a permanent fixed feature, but rather down to the player to pick the server they want to play on (just like players have the choice to play on the PvE server). We might both love Rust, but your flavor might be different to mine. Can't we all co-exist?
At the end of the day this is meant to be a tough survival game. From the front of the site "This is in very early public development. Everything will change. Beware.". Nothing is set in stone nor is what we have currently a representation of the final version. You bought into a game in early development that's going to evolve in a variety of ways that I, you, or even Garry doesn't even know yet. We have but a basic preview. I'm not saying don't give feedback or your opinion on how things are panning out currently; that's important. What I'm trying to say is look at the big picture, rather then focusing on this is what we got, this is how it's going to be, go die in a fire!!
Just my two cence. I'm not really much of a poster, just a long time lurker, but I've played RUST a lot so far and the sleeper servers have put some more risk and fun back into the game for me and my friends personally. I actually like a lot of the ideas popping up around it, like being a set time you stay in game rather then till you login, or your character being some type of NPC. Lots of ideas to be toyed with. Really hope you let the whole sleeper experiment pan out much further into development and just see how it goes.
-
True in theory.
And not that I personally disagree with the Sleeper business/gaming model for Rust.
However, based on years of multiplayer gaming reality business models, permadeath, which is basically what your toying with with Sleeper mode as it relates to the eventual loss of all tangible in-game items over-night that a player has accrued, will only appeal to a minute fraction of 24-7 basement dweller players; it's just the way it is.
Now, have servers that are like that, which are considered hardcore, and servers that don't enable that feature and you've a playable game that appeals to the core audience of survival apocalyptic gaming enthusiasts and the very transient hardcore gamers.
But that's me. . .I dont think anyone should think that Rust will only have Sleeper enabled, and that goes with the eventual private servers as well.
-
I am hearing feedback, I haven't heard a reason why we shouldn't do it. It's an alpha, it's in development. This is an idea we have had for a while and it solves a lot of problems.
Breaking balance isn't an issue right now - and that's what most of the complaints are about. Rust is already horribly unbalanced towards raiders. We need to address that by adding more defensive tools. We know this. But that shouldn't prevent the game pushing in other directions too.
-
Nice straw man. I said that these folks already have all the advantages and they don't need anymore.
Soloing can be hard, but it doesn't need to be punished.
I tried the US East Sleeper when it came out and enjoyed what seemed like a pretty good player to server ratio until a group of three kids no clipped into my house and killed me, all the while yelling insults.
I am not sure what your goal is business model wise is, but it seems to be that games like this that are one time purchase and not subscription based do well because a lot of people play some, not because some people play a lot, your clever straw man argument notwithstanding.
-
I don't know why you would bring business models in.
This isn't a business decision. It's a game decision. It fits the game perfectly. Maybe not the game you're playing right now - but the game we're heading towards.
Dumb x 1
Agree x 1
Funny x 2
Informative x 1
Disagree x 1
Winner x 1
Useful x 2
Zing x 1
