[rovar]

Vilusia posted:

And yet i've done it multiple times with random people.
You obviously arent trying hard enough.

So what you're telling me is that you made a village, and the majority of the players in the game followed you and teamed up? I don't think so.

[Hunts168]

I agree with your statement 100% all the "Survival" games I played were like how you described.

[Jitterz]

I like how the OP talks to himself in the post.

I agree that something needs to be adjusted as far as loot is concerned. But really adding a bunch of crap to sort through, the way the game is now, just means it will take someone longer to find the fucking metal door they been farming for 2 days.

Now having more components to craft things, which I think is in line with your suggestion, seems like it could fit in with how rust is currently. At least make the stuff we are looting useful in some way. Maybe alone that something won't be useful but mixed with one or three other things it is. That way the loot individually isn't as powerful as it is now.

A new way to distribute loot is also needed. Like you said the magic boxes are not all that great. But really what is there to change with this? Sure you can make the crate a file cabinet on the wall instead, but that doesn't really change much.

Also, one last point, as far as killing people is easier than farming the loot yourself. I wonder if some kind of alignment system would help with this. Reds get their loot killing, Blues can get their loot trading. I think it would certainly spice things up and add a huge dynamic to the world.

tldr: don't add a bunch of crap loot that nobody needs. Add more stuff and components for crafting. Add an alignment system.

[tryhard]

Theres rarely more then 110 people even online in rust, the OP wants them all to play nice so he doesn't get pwnd but they dgaf

[seanybob011]

I Totally Agree i personally have not played the game but i do watch on twitch and youtube i think it should be like the walking dead how there are settlements, bandits or there can be peaceful stick together server and a pvp server :D

[ZestyLemons]

Same problem as DayZ, really.

Being a bandit can net you a ton of free/rare shit, while not being a bandit (not raiding or KoSing) doesn't benefit you at all.

[Vilusia]

rovar posted:

So what you're telling me is that you made a village, and the majority of the players in the game followed you and teamed up? I don't think so.

http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1286035
Now whana keep talking out your butt?

[rovar]

Vilusia posted:

http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1286035
Now whana keep talking out your butt?

You're not getting anything I'm saying.

I don't want a fucking village that people make. I've done what you did before. You think a single friendly village will change the game's dynamic? Clearly not. You and I both made villages, yet to this day people are still killing everyone and raiding more than ever with the addition of charges.

Yeah, and tryhard, I don't die all that often at all. It's not an issue about me getting "pwned" now shut the fuck up. You said you would leave and stop posting.

[NoobSauce]

ZestyLemons posted:

Same problem as DayZ, really.

Being a bandit can net you a ton of free/rare shit, while not being a bandit (not raiding or KoSing) doesn't benefit you at all.

I think this is one of the biggest problems with online survival games really. If Rust can somehow fix/improve this in some manner it may shine some hope on the Survival Sandbox genre.

[zFugitive]

So OP, what exactly do you want people to do in this game?

I understand exactly what you DONT want. You DONT want people to enjoy killing other people.

So what you want people to spend the majority of their time in the game doing exactly?

[rovar]

zFugitive posted:

So OP, what exactly do you want people to do in this game?

I understand exactly what you DONT want. You DONT want people to enjoy killing other people.

So what you want people to spend the majority of their time in the game doing exactly?

I'm not saying don't enjoy killing other people. I love killing people. What I want is making killing people and raiding a less lucrative way to get supplies rather than making it the best way to get things.

[tryhard]

lol rovar no one agrees

[zFugitive]

rovar posted:

I'm not saying don't enjoy killing other people. I love killing people. What I want is making killing people and raiding a less lucrative way to get supplies rather than making it the best way to get things.

So what your saying is, you still want people to kill each other the same exact amount. But you just want it so that when you kill a person, you don't get as much stuff...got it.

[GentlemanLexi]

iAMunderDog posted:

I don't play Rust since I don't have the alpha/beta key even if I had I could not run it, stuck on single core Atom notebook so its awful. I had a PC that meet bare minimum requirements but it died.

Rust needs a lot of changes, for now its just chaotic in every possible way. lol

When I hear Rust I always think of Stalker, for now Rust is semi zombie apocallypse and weapons just don't fit. Who in the world could build an M9 or M4 or an MP5 with scrap metal and no tools.

Why not double barrel shotgun? Double shot pistol? Double shotpistol(shotgun/pistol like in Empires), single barrel shotgun/rifle? A semi auto pistol could look like Luger or japanese Nambu or even like old Mauser.

So you don't have the game, yet you want to improve on it?

[dUTtrOACh]

rovar posted:

I'm not saying don't enjoy killing other people. I love killing people. What I want is making killing people and raiding a less lucrative way to get supplies rather than making it the best way to get things.

I would say it's up to the person / people being raided to make raiding less lucrative for the raiders. In other words, successfully defending off raiders is the best way to punish them for even trying in the first place.

What the game needs is a stronger defenders' advantage:

The addition of traps could make a big difference, but the traps would have to have a very high killing potential or even a 100% killing potential to be viable.
Sleeping bags with limited respawns (and a warning once you've run out) could solve the problem of endless raids and exploitative sleeping bag placements, to some extent.
More monsters / enemies in general would make it significantly harder to spend time out in the open, outside of the shelter of a house and would contribute to the defender's advantage every time.

[Psychonaut]

In any post-apocalyptic survival scenario, humans are just as threatening and a risk as the environment around you. It only seems fast paced now because they game is still in alpha. I'm sure the more the game gets done the better it will become. I don't think they should have removed zombies though, leaving just human on human survival.

rovar posted:

I am well aware the game is in alpha. But once loot is implemented on a larger basis, I would think it would be interesting just to have random shit to sort through. Right now, when starting out you rarely even have to look at a loot spawn's loot. Something of value will be in it 100% of the time. Whether it's ammo, rad pills, or metal fragments.

I'm not asking for realism, no. I'm asking for immersion. It would be pretty awesome to have random ass loot spawns in the middle of nowhere. Bags, briefcases, crates, stuff like that. But make it like Fallout 3, where you are tempted to search it even if you don't find anything. Have items like empty tin can, or broken pipe, or just shit that isn't really useful.

Most people will say how it will be annoying having to search through random junk, but that's the immersion aspect. When dealing with people looting, you know they will have SOMETHING of use if they went looting from chests. Don't make looting so lucrative, and focus more on survival. People can just camp loot spawns and have a constant small income of everything pretty much.

This deviates a little off what I am talking about, but it's still relavent. I cannot stand, when people use the argument, "It's a survival game. Survive." When talking about the intense PvP aspect. Are you fucking kidding me? So what you are saying, is that by killing everyone else I am surviving. Using that logic, CoD is a survival game. Borderlands 2 is a survival game. Goddamn Mario is a survival game then.

Your definition of a survival game seems to be to last as long as possible without perishing. By default any and every single game in existence where you can lose all your lives and have a game over of some sort is a survival game. I may be nit-picking, but it's true.

When I hear "survival", I don't think of survival of the fittest by culling those weaker than you. I see survival as a group of individuals that work together towards creating a sustainable environment. Sure, we have some of that.

The true way to balance the game, is to create punishment for killing every other human, while maintaining fun and playability. This is a lot harder than it sounds. An argument is, "You wouldn't just kill someone for the fun of it in real life."

A simple concept, but hard to execute. To do this you need to make killing less rewarding and dissatisfying, or make teamwork and team play much more rewarding and satisfying. Raiding is the most common and successful way to get supplies. Raid a camp deep in resource spawns and you are bound to hit the jackpot. Then, the strong get stronger and if they have malicious intentions, can ruin the game for everyone else.

The devs talked about having to make guns piece by piece. Step in the right direction, still changes nothing. The same issues will occur, just over less time. It'll just take more time to create raiding equipment, and things for PvP. It will still be used for the same thing. No matter how hard you make for players to obtain weapons, the problems will never cease to exist. In fact, it will make things just more frustrating for newer players and fresh spawns. It's true how the strong get stronger, and the weak get weaker. Once a group obtains a large amount of force, they will be unstoppable. I KNOW someone is going to say, "Well just get another group to fight them then!"

Using that, we're back to square one. We are back to small groups forming to take out other groups with the highest resource count.

TL;DR - The problem isn't overpowered guns, or PvP, or groups forming, or bandits, the problem that is always being overlooked is the sheer fact that killing other players is too much of an alternative for getting supplies through the map. Killing players is way too rewarding and satisfying for people, therefore making it the norm.

Also, looting as of now makes the game too fast paced and doesn't make us appreciate loot nearly as much. Usable things and helpful things are much too common.

And I typed this on my iPod, sorry for mistakes.

[rovar]

People really like to have revenge.

I don't get it. They die, then spend 90% of their time to try to find the person who killed them and make it their mission to kill them 100 times.

[Vilusia]

See that revenge thing is just talking out your ass because unless you spawned right next to the person who killed you, there is little to no chance of you running into them for a while.

[Leestons]

tryhard posted:

lol rovar no one agrees

Yeah Rover, no one agrees.


   I agree with you, I have no interest in playing but I agree. It should be a survival game with FPS elements, not the other way round   

[SolidOwlPL]

Remove fire guns, or make them rare to find (not create TO FIND) - bullets on the other hand could be crafted from things that you may find around (left over coins, melted down cans) and they will do different type of damage as well - just some ideas...

Make the character hand shake so aiming is hard (this will lower people from shooting to you from a distance since there will be a lower chance of hitting the target)

[rovar]

Vilusia posted:

See that revenge thing is just talking out your ass because unless you spawned right next to the person who killed you, there is little to no chance of you running into them for a while.

I'm done responding to you because you talk like you have never played this game. It's like you didn't even read my goddamn first post. You've deviated completely away from the issues I'm talking about and now you're just spewing random bullshit. I've done my fair share of in-game research. I did enough of it to know what I'm talking about and make an educated opinion on the game.

I'm not some kid who died a thousand times then got butthurt and said, "REMOVE ALL THE GUNS AND PVP THIS IS DUMB."

And no, people want to have revenge. If someone kills them, if they find them again they will make sure to be ruthless. What, if you had good shit on you and someone killed you in cold blood, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't just forgive the player and never harm them. You would kill them everytime you see them. The foreseeable exception to this is new spawns. And even then they would attempt to kill their murderer if they had their whereabouts.

[rzrshrp]

lol i've read this whole thread and I don't even care about the topic anymore, you guys go way tooo into it. The funny thing I do think is rovar told tryhard he was going to start ignoring his posts and not replying back to them but yet he continued to reply to tryhard. haha pretty funny.

[rovar]

rzrshrp posted:

lol i've read this whole thread and I don't even care about the topic anymore, you guys go way tooo into it. The funny thing I do think is rovar told tryhard he was going to start ignoring his posts and not replying back to them but yet he continued to reply to tryhard. haha pretty funny.

Never said that to tryhard. tryhard said he would stop posting.

I said that to Vilusia.

[ZSurvivalist]

rzrshrp posted:

lol i've read this whole thread and I don't even care about the topic anymore, you guys go way tooo into it. The funny thing I do think is rovar told tryhard he was going to start ignoring his posts and not replying back to them but yet he continued to reply to tryhard. haha pretty funny.

Your first post and it's a piece of shit.

To the topic at hand, I die a lot, but I play alone and the only people I shoot are the people who get too close to me. (i.e. if they charge at me or shoot at me). I just can't farm long enough to make a base. I'm probably doing something wrong but here's how I play rust:
Run around, pick some shit up, hide in abandoned buildings.

So I die a lot, getting to the point. Everyone is an asshole, I'm sure the mentality of "Everyone else is a bandit, so fuck being nice." is pretty important, but the majority of people I see in the chat, sound like they got too loose and just get edgy as much as the hatchet they're holding. It's all, "haha asshole" and "fuck you bitch eat my M4". Now those aren't direct quotes, but the meaning is all the same. I do see some nice people, hell a guy was going to trade me metal door blue prints, before I got raided in my 1 x 1 room, by an asshole.

To really lower PvP, they're needs to be a reason not to shoot someone. It's probably the hardest fucking thing ever. If Garry or Pat or any other dev can find this special something, well, they're gonna be fucking rich.

[skeptical]

The only reason PvP is so ridiculously high right now is because:

1) inventories are never wiped when map wipes happen which leads to bigger groups shitting on the smaller ones within hours - many people unable to make a decent base in time
2) crafting explosive charges is too easy - teams easily regain what they lose resource wise by raiding
3) able to log out with guns etc or combat log saves that person doing PvE for a while

I honestly don't think this game is playable right now for the people in groups of 2 or less. Also with the recent surge in people cheating I have no idea what the state of the game will be in a week or so.

[Yihka]

I can understand your point. You want being friendly / mine minerals to be more worth your time than looting people themselves. It makes people just rather kill each other.

How do you solve this? That's the biggest problem. You can make it harder to obtain equipment but that's not going to stop anything, just make it harder for the weak to become stronger. You can't distinquish traders and enemies, simply because that'd be non-immersive. ( Plus the bandits will probably have as much equipment so that doesn't work either ). You can also make it that loot that's not from yourself, will not be seen 100%. So you can only loot 20% of what's in a chest and such but that'd be perhaps a bit lame.

In my opinion, there are perhaps several ways to perhaps "solve" this. It might not be what you expect for an answer but to me it's the best I can come up with:
1. Add ways to communicate in the game through walkie-talkies with channels (voice-chat) and so give the players who do want to work together more ways to come up with it. It doesn't really change the way that being a bandit is better than looting.
2. Make the map larger, bigger. Able to make stronger bases with traps and the such, which makes it really hard for bandits to come in, apart from the front door which would be protected by people. This way there'd be perhaps a few bases around the world where "good people" rise and help those who are weak. This does not change it either but does give several "safe-zones" made by players.
3. Make trading only possible while the player is still alive. What does this mean? You've learnt a blueprint and you can learn the other person how to do it but if he kills you, he won't gain it. For safety purposes, a special doorway can be made with bullet-proof glass or something with those little holes in it so the person can't be harmed.

These are a few of my suggestions perhaps someone else knows some more. It's just really hard going to solve it since everyone loots stuff and it's faster to kill someone who just looted stuff than looting it yourself.