[Grocel]

I want to strongly advise against the making of an under water tunnel with different heights of water surfaces. Once I have seen such an attempt in a map. The results are those graphical glitches:


It is, because the source's dx9 water doesn't support that well. It has something to do with PVS or something. You can workaround it, but you would have to use unreflective water which is ugly too.

[GeekDeer]

@ HighVoltage :
You should make it like the tunel from the map wich ( I dont remember the name ) come with wiremod.

[highvoltage]

Here is my progress on the submarine room:




As you can see there are a few bugs with the water even though its the same height (same brush to be exact)

How is this for the tunnels? They are not lit yet (the light stool it used in the picture)

[Firegod522]

Grocel posted:

These are 512 or 1024 units long an wide, these are generated by vvis. There are hacked versions out there, that are splitting every 2048, 4096 and so on, but there is a reason for that 512/1024 limit I guess.

1024 units. They are generated by VBsp, not VVis. VVis just goes through a series of passes to calculate what is and what isn't visible.

Seeing this shot:

Grocel posted:

You should probably put a func_areaportalwindow by those balconies, because you will be rendering everything on the inside from that angle.

Grocel posted:

You could (if not already done) place a nodraw brush underneath the displacement hill, in the shape of a triangle. I can't exactly see whats done because I don't have the .vmf Also there is no reason for that concrete going up the slope to be a brush, as you have the wall there already, and I have series doubts anybody is going to be 1-2 units tall and have their visibility blocked from the concrete path.

Grocel posted:

The building on the bottom left, seen in the original construct, in front of the spawn, you have a room inside of the wall, which you shouldn't be able to see, probably form the lack of a hint/skip. The slant on the left going towards the lake brick wall should have a hint/skip brush to keep the visleafs from cutting excessively, and also keep people that are in front of the building looking towards it, from rendering something they can't see.

Edited:

Grocel posted:

I want to strongly advise against the making of an under water tunnel with different heights of water surfaces. Once I have seen such an attempt in a map. The results are those graphical glitches:


It is, because the source's dx9 water doesn't support that well. It has something to do with PVS or something. You can workaround it, but you would have to use unreflective water which is ugly too.

This is caused by Source only having 1 texture to render reflections, which in this case, using the original one you see. This problem is avoidable if you separate their PVS, by not rendering the outside. Or you can keep it the same height.

Edited:

highvoltage posted:

Here is my progress on the submarine room:

As you can see there are a few bugs with the water even though its the same height (same brush to be exact)

If you are referring seeing the blue aliasing from the water brush touching the wall, you can avoid this by func_detailing the face touching the water (the one with the aliasing.)

[DarkZero135]

For some reason reading this thread makes me really happy
i love seeing things progress
you guys are doing an amazing job and i cant wait to play it when gmod13 hits

[highvoltage]

Firegod522 posted:

If you are referring seeing the blue aliasing from the water brush touching the wall, you can avoid this by func_detailing the face touching the water (the one with the aliasing.)

I was referring more to this picture with the light blue ripples that are seen from under water.

[Firegod522]

highvoltage posted:

I was referring more to this picture with the light blue ripples that are seen from under water.

Same solution. Though I don't recommend, as there is a brush there preventing a leak. What you can do is add some sort of balcony so it gets covered. And be sure that is also func_detailed.

[phabeZ]

highvoltage posted:

The ceiling looks a little low, I assume that's due to the fact that there's occupied land ontop of it. Maybe you could extend the tunnel more, then build a larger 'submarine room' outside the map area. I made an image to help explain it



That'd be on the other side of the wall, I drew it like that for perspective. Of course it'd also call for a broader tunnel design as well.

Also if you choose not to do the above and just keep with what you've got, or even do the above and keep that tiny tunnel, I suggest a tunnel entrance in an octagon shape, like so (I had photoshop opened already so I figured I might as well do a small diagram)



I'll be honest though, I don't think the area is fit for a "submarine room", even though the wall may look empty without it, there are better ways to deal with that than squeezing in a submarine room. I think you'd be better off having one of the tunnels in the tunnel system (assuming that's still underway) lead off out of the central map area to a small but reasonably sized concrete "pool" area (with sunlight and all), designed for boat and submarine construction, and then you can easily fit in a submarine room there. I'd say left from spawn (assuming you spawn facing the grass still), because there's skybox buildings there which could hide it a bit.

[MacD11]

Do you think a second (smaller) dark room in the submarine room would be good at all?

   Maybe even the color room?   

[SGTNAPALM]

highvoltage posted:

I think that this should be more like this:

[mil0001]

Looks interesting. I'm not sure if your going the easy access route (Meaning exits to the surface) or only through underwater doors?

[Colton Rappe]

mil0001 posted:

Looks interesting. I'm not sure if your going the easy access route (Meaning exits to the surface) or only through underwater doors?

It will of course have the underwater entrance, probably will have a tunnel-based entrance, and might have a direct surface-access entrance, but I doubt that one.

Edited:

garry posted:

Maybe we could make the whiteroom super huge. As big as it can go?

How many people honestly agree with this idea? I think it is not in the best interest of keeping the players close to eachother, if you have a huge-ass white-room.

Also, on a side note, the whiteroom now has two-ply walls, so if you screw with the white-room's transparency, it wont screw up into a blurry-rainbow pile of crap anymore. You wont see the brick-wall behind it unless you set the opacity of the wall to Zero.

Courtesy of Grocel.

[mil0001]

Sounds good. Also did you try some textures for the ugly trim bit? Possibly look into citadel textures that are a similar blue colour if you want.. Or just properly align mine :)

[Colton Rappe]

phabeZ posted:

I'd say left from spawn (assuming you spawn facing the grass still), because there's skybox buildings there which could hide it a bit.

Since the skybox is 3d, all objects not in the actual skybox, that are outside of the skybox zone, are not rendered in the skybox.

Edited:

mil0001 posted:

Sounds good. Also did you try some textures for the ugly trim bit? Possibly look into citadel textures that are a similar blue colour if you want.. Or just properly align mine :)

We are not meddling with custom textures until near the end of the project.

[The Inspector]

I'm stalking this thread so much I feel like a paedophile.

[Kavukamari]

The Inspector posted:

I'm stalking this thread so much I feel like a paedophile.

cause the map is just a baby that we're raising to be the successful adult it needs to be to become a stock map in gm13?

[PenguinGuy]

What about the citadel in the skybox (Just an idea, I wanna see what it would look like :D)

WHAT?! I just wanna see what it looks like :3

[phabeZ]

Colton Rappe posted:

Since the skybox is 3d, all objects not in the actual skybox, that are outside of the skybox zone, are not rendered in the skybox.

Ahk, I couldn't remember how it worked exactly, even so, in that general location wouldn't be a bad spot anyway

[garry]

Regarding the mirror ents, and how it's rendered.

Internally it uses exactly the same system as the water. I'm going to look into improving the rendering so it draws the player, and isn't low resolution. I'd rather we not use a separate entity for it - because if I improve it in a generic way it'll work on any map - and the maps remain compatible with other games too.

[Colton Rappe]

Here is another compiled test version of the map as it is currently, for all gmod13 and gmod12 players. We dont plan on pushing the update to workshop until we finish the draft of the tunnels and the submarine room is placed/modified as it is needed.

Do not report bugs in this version of the map, only download it for the novelty, and for giving further suggestions to the tunnel system and submarine room.

I also included our (current and likely to change) mapicon that doesn't function properly when added via workshop. (Hint Hint Garry).

http://bit.ly/H2fWLv

Especially do not report cubemaps, they are not being worked on right now.

[ultradude25]

garry posted:

Regarding the mirror ents, and how it's rendered.

Internally it uses exactly the same system as the water. I'm going to look into improving the rendering so it draws the player, and isn't low resolution. I'd rather we not use a separate entity for it - because if I improve it in a generic way it'll work on any map - and the maps remain compatible with other games too.

Does that mean water reflections will look nicer too?

[mil0001]

It was brought up some time ago. How do you go about doing the white room garry? I know its some kind of brush based entity?

It would be nice to finally get doors in the white room to make it a completely coloured space.

[Colton Rappe]

mil0001 posted:

It was brought up some time ago. How do you go about doing the white room garry? I know its some kind of brush based entity?

It would be nice to finally get doors in the white room to make it a completely coloured space.

The white room is constructed of normal brushes converted to func_brush entities, that have nodraw textured on 5 of the 6 sides, and the inside face, that you see, is painted with a custom texture called "gm_construct/color_room".

The func_brush walls also have custom properties of:
"gmod_allowtools" = "colour button balloon light lamp dynamite thruster paint"
"gmod_allowphysgun" = "0".

Making the doors painted with the whiteroom texture would be simple, making them have the same properties restricting people to not being able to physgun them and being able to color them would also be simple. The problem is implementing doors, and how you would trigger them without buttons that are easily visible in the room, AND being able to leave the room without noclip.

[phabeZ]

Colton Rappe posted:

The problem is implementing doors, and how you would trigger them without buttons that are easily visible in the room, AND being able to leave the room without noclip.

Couldn't you just make it so if you walked up to the door and pressed your 'use' key on it it would open? Then have a timer so it automatically closes after a few seconds.

[Colton Rappe]

phabeZ posted:

Couldn't you just make it so if you walked up to the door and pressed your 'use' key on it it would open? Then have a timer so it automatically closes after a few seconds.

How to relocate the door in a void of white?

[phabeZ]

Colton Rappe posted:

How to relocate the door in a void of white?

use colour tool on the wall with another colour, that should make it stand out, assuming it'll be coloured individually

[Colton Rappe]

Do we want the borders of the doorways also colorable, or do we want just a single brush-based door to cover the entire gap, recessing the door into the wall to make it flush with the rest of the white room?

Edited:

From the lack of response, I will take that as a yes.

Just a concept, nothing is set in stone, just thought I would throw this out there to entertain you.

Edited:

I revised the design of the door, so the inside is 2 func_brush that are colorable, and are parented to the 2 func_doors, and you cannot physgun the func_brushes and you cannot physgun the func_doors, and you cannot color the func_doors, but you CAN of course color the func_brushes that are parented to the doors.

This keeps it from making the doors mimic the same color as the inside of the white room.

New Video:

You may or may not notice that when I color the left panel with blue, right after, I try to color the door itself instead of the panel that is parented to it, and it doesnt do anything, confirming that it wont let you color the inner hallway doors, and of course, you cant physgun either the panels nor the doors themselves.

Edit:

Okay, both sides have doors now, this color-door feature will be kept until either the community votes it to be removed, or we all say that we like it.

I, personally, like it. Textures can, of course, be modified as needed for the small details. (Aka Stripes on door edges can be something else)

Taking my power nap now, will wake up later. Rate Winner if you like it, and would like it kept after being tweaked a little.

[SGTNAPALM]

Colton Rappe posted:

How many people honestly agree with this idea? I think it is not in the best interest of keeping the players close to eachother, if you have a huge-ass white-room.

I fail to see the harm in this. A huge white room and darkroom are fun and doesn't harm the rest of the map.

Edited:

Colton Rappe posted:

Do we want the borders of the doorways also colorable, or do we want just a single brush-based door to cover the entire gap, recessing the door into the wall to make it flush with the rest of the white room?

Make it borderless for simplicities's sake.

[Netsc]

Colton Rappe posted:

Do we want the borders of the doorways also colorable, or do we want just a single brush-based door to cover the entire gap, recessing the door into the wall to make it flush with the rest of the white room?

Edited:


From the lack of response, I will take that as a yes.

Just a concept, nothing is set in stone, just thought I would throw this out there to entertain you.

Edited:

I revised the design of the door, so the inside is 2 func_brush that are colorable, and are parented to the 2 func_doors, and you cannot physgun the func_brushes and you cannot physgun the func_doors, and you cannot color the func_doors, but you CAN of course color the func_brushes that are parented to the doors.

This keeps it from making the doors mimic the same color as the inside of the white room.

New Video:

You may or may not notice that when I color the left panel with blue, right after, I try to color the door itself instead of the panel that is parented to it, and it doesnt do anything, confirming that it wont let you color the inner hallway doors, and of course, you cant physgun either the panels nor the doors themselves.

Edit:

Okay, both sides have doors now, this color-door feature will be kept until either the community votes it to be removed, or we all say that we like it.

I, personally, like it. Textures can, of course, be modified as needed for the small details. (Aka Stripes on door edges can be something else)

Taking my power nap now, will wake up later. Rate Winner if you like it, and would like it kept after being tweaked a little.

Please tell me the texture isn't final.
I like the idea but the door texture is awful.

[PenguinGuy]

Just make the door texture the same as the whiteroom material!

[_NewBee]

Netsc posted:

Please tell me the texture isn't final.
I like the idea but the door texture is awful.

I don't think it's awful, but it's a bit odd that those types of doors would slide out of concrete like that.

[kimr120]

PenguinGuy posted:

Just make the door texture the same as the whiteroom material!

That would look awful with the brickwall.

[phabeZ]

Netsc posted:

Please tell me the texture isn't final.
I like the idea but the door texture is awful.

6 people seem to be disagreeing with this post so far, I think I may as well offer an alternative that I had in mind.

The current texture you're using I find rather unfitting. The width looks stretched, it has windows on it (even though they're blocked so you can't see through them, the very idea of using a door like this I find silly) and of course there's also, like someone mentioned already, the fact that a door like this behaves like this is a little unusual, though I don't have a huge problem with that personally, though it'd be ideal to have it making as much sense as possible, even though some will argue realism shouldn't be factored into the map design.

Here's a quick concept design I came up with, not overly advanced but more fitting than the current doors.



The grey/brown part is a metal texture of course (I'm sure there's plenty of fitting HL2 textures for something like this), and the red and white stripes the same texture currently used for the inside of the doors (that should remain the same too btw)

Just an idea of course, I think it'd be better than the current door for sure, though others may disagree.

[yuki]

http://i.imgur.com/09pva.jpg

Are you going to put 3d skybox terrain outside the boundaries? Floating trees looks weird.

[Zoshi235]

Maybe add some ground to the 3-D skybox. It's always bugged me that going past 6 feet in the air allowed you to see the invisible ground beneath the buildings, and that problem is even more prominent now that there are solid, stand-on-able brushes up there.

[Blitz967]

I didn't get to check out everything on the map, but when I played it, the first thing I noticed was the lighting.

You really nailed it. I love the early evening feel of it. It makes me feel really warm inside.

But I noticed some things I didn't like, and if these have been mentioned already, I apologize.



Are you planning on adding stairs instead of ladders? The ladders make it look...(non-existant word ahead)

...unbuildinglike.

Plus, this:



Either it's my computer, or I can't see myself in the mirror.

Other than that, I love the HELL out of this map and I can't wait to explore it more.

[mil0001]

The mirrir is secretly another room :V of corse far beyond sources capabilities

[areolop]

Blitz967 posted:

Either it's my computer, or I can't see myself in the mirror.

Other than that, I love the HELL out of this map and I can't wait to explore it more.

Read the thread first before saying stuff like this.

[LoLWaT?]

After looking at some of the progress that was made on the submarine room,
As far as my idea for the design of the submarine room goes. I know I didn't show it well in my design but:



I did picture the tunnel sloping down at a couple of points with that small platform being on a flat section of the tunnel in the middle, and water pouring in from the lake, through the tunnel, and into the pool of the main room.
( I thought of it being like that because I knew there would be problems with the map being above it, but I guess I didn't quite know how difficult that would actually be to implement)

I also wanted the actual room to have a high ceiling. (The ceiling from the room in the progress shots high-voltage posted is WAY too low)


If it's too difficult to implement a tunnel that slopes down with the water, you might have to start from scratch as far as the concept goes or just not do an area like that at all.

(Also, assuming it did work out, someone did post a good idea a couple of pages back about the room having a rock ceiling which would definitely look better than flat concrete.)

[Blitz967]

areolop posted:

Read the thread first before saying stuff like this.

"You can, but there are issues that arise by running the map in Gmod12, such as the mirror in the mirror room being glitched. So we discourage it."

I'm running GMod 13.