1. Post #22721
    Gold Member
    Darth_GW7's Avatar
    March 2008
    7,680 Posts
    Even so, the ME series have never been ambiguous with the definition of Synthetic and Organic.

    Take it from the Catalyst when talking about Shepard. "Even you are partially synthetic". Referencing the mechanical shit inside him.
    Or the fact that his body is not wholly natural, that a part of him is artificial, man-made.
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  2. Post #22722
    Remove anime
    jiggu's Avatar
    July 2007
    9,873 Posts


    If I take an apple and alter its genes to produce a greater yield, it's no longer "Organic food", it's "Genetically modified", artificial, synthetic.
    It's been altered by some outside force. It's no longer natural.
    It's genetically modified organic food, it's not suddenly synthetic.
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  3. Post #22723
    I was nice to a hobo once and he bought me this title
    Dirf's Avatar
    May 2010
    5,951 Posts
    The weapon unlock system is so fucking stupid. There should be weapon-type specific crates so if I want to get a new assault rifle I could just get an assault rifle crate instead of wading through piles of smg and sniper shit that is no use to me.

    Weapons should level up and unlock attachments as you use them, so you don't get lots of things you don't want. Same for classes, if you want a character for a class you should be able to buy a character crate or a class crate. Anything to make it easier to get more of what you want and less of what you don't want.

    Instead of a new assault rifle I get tons of SMG's, every character in the soldier class (which I haven't even touched the entire game), and upgrades for weapons that I haven't touched. I'm still stuck with the default assault rifle with no attachments even though that's my most used weapon.
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  4. Post #22724
    Gold Member
    lexus04's Avatar
    January 2005
    2,860 Posts
    ending spoilers

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  5. Post #22725
    Gold Member
    Darth_GW7's Avatar
    March 2008
    7,680 Posts
    We're being influenced by everything in our closed system. Beyond that there is no artificial intervention. If an alien race were to suddenly change our evolutionary course or provide us with advanced technology, then that would be intervention from outside our closed system, and thus artificial.
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  6. Post #22726
    Eyes like a god damn hawk
    H4wkeye's Avatar
    March 2011
    4,788 Posts
    They should've stuck with Drew's original writing where it was all about the Dark Energy. It made a lot more sense and it was much better than this.
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  7. Post #22727
    "some of those dragon dildo designs are pretty cool"
    EcksDee's Avatar
    February 2007
    9,303 Posts
    Or the fact that his body is not wholly natural, that a part of him is artificial, man-made.
    Not artificial, synthetic.
    Explicitly created from nothing by others.
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  8. Post #22728
    What fun is there in making sense?
    Dennab
    October 2007
    9,274 Posts
    I kind of feel bad for Bioware.
    I mean they probably thought the ending was perfect but now they're seeing all this backlash it must be heartbreaking, they put so much work in and now loads of people are complaining about it "Sucking".
    I'd feel horrible if that happened :(
    You think that until you find all the unused sound files that involve you coordinating your attack with Asari, Salarians, Geth, Quarians, etc...

    http://www.reddit.com/r/masseffect/c...ding_spoilers/
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  9. Post #22729
    Gold Member
    Darth_GW7's Avatar
    March 2008
    7,680 Posts
    They should've stuck with Drew's original writing where it was all about the Dark Energy. It made a lot more sense and it was much better than this.
    Dark Energy to me just sounds like yet another cop-out by throwing out something that we don't understand and aren't expected to understand, and that it's just some weird unknown force that has mysterious powers.
    It's essentially the "Magic *snort snort*" of sci-fi to me.
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  10. Post #22730
    "some of those dragon dildo designs are pretty cool"
    EcksDee's Avatar
    February 2007
    9,303 Posts
    We're being influenced by everything in our closed system. Beyond that there is no artificial intervention. If an alien race were to suddenly change our evolutionary course or provide us with advanced technology, then that would be intervention from outside our closed system, and thus artificial.
    No, there is no difference. Uplifting is nothing more than giving a lesser advanced species more technology. What Humans did was found advanced technology which advanced their own unnaturally fast.
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  11. Post #22731
    Gold Member
    Darth_GW7's Avatar
    March 2008
    7,680 Posts
    Not artificial, synthetic.
    Explicitly created from nothing by others.
    Exactly, it was created, introduced to his natural body, it's an artificial addition to an otherwise natural body.
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  12. Post #22732
    Gold Member
    Cone's Avatar
    August 2011
    19,137 Posts
    They should've stuck with Drew's original writing where it was all about the Dark Energy. It made a lot more sense and it was much better than this.
    they should have just kept Karpshyn and Walters working together

    they were a great team
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  13. Post #22733
    Gold Member
    Janus Vesta's Avatar
    May 2007
    12,570 Posts
    We're being influenced by everything in our closed system. Beyond that there is no artificial intervention. If an alien race were to suddenly change our evolutionary course or provide us with advanced technology, then that would be intervention from outside our closed system, and thus artificial.
    Closed system? What closed system? Shit from space influences us all the damn time. You've got the sun constantly blasing us with light and radiation. Countless meteorites every year, meteors and asteroids constantly wiping out sections of life (on a geologic scale). There is no closed system.
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  14. Post #22734
    Gold Member
    benzi2k7's Avatar
    July 2007
    7,793 Posts
    We're being influenced by everything in our closed system. Beyond that there is no artificial intervention. If an alien race were to suddenly change our evolutionary course or provide us with advanced technology, then that would be intervention from outside our closed system, and thus artificial.
    Are dogs artificial?
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  15. Post #22735
    Gold Member
    Darth_GW7's Avatar
    March 2008
    7,680 Posts
    No, there is no difference. Uplifting is nothing more than giving a lesser advanced species more technology. What Humans did was found advanced technology which advanced their own unnaturally fast.
    Key word: Unnaturally. Unnatural = Artificial. It's that simple.

    Edited:

    Are dogs artificial?
    Due to centuries of selective breeding, one could argue this way.
    Same for cows, pigs, sheep etc. I consider these "Artificial" species due to the fact that we've altered their evolutionary course.
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  16. Post #22736
    Remove anime
    jiggu's Avatar
    July 2007
    9,873 Posts
    The weapon unlock system is so fucking stupid. There should be weapon-type specific crates so if I want to get a new assault rifle I could just get an assault rifle crate instead of wading through piles of smg and sniper shit that is no use to me.

    Weapons should level up and unlock attachments as you use them, so you don't get lots of things you don't want. Same for classes, if you want a character for a class you should be able to buy a character crate or a class crate. Anything to make it easier to get more of what you want and less of what you don't want.

    Instead of a new assault rifle I get tons of SMG's, every character in the soldier class (which I haven't even touched the entire game), and upgrades for weapons that I haven't touched. I'm still stuck with the default assault rifle with no attachments even though that's my most used weapon.
    It annoys me how abilities scales with level, and nothing more than that, while weapons scale with level, mods and rank. As for getting to level 20 on a character is rather easy, it doesn't take even nearly as long as it takes to even get all the guns you want to use on a specific char, and then to rank them up... It's impossible to get any geth gun to rank X, hell I just recently got my geth plasma shotgun and I've played this game since it was released, several hours a day. Getting a Javelin or upgrading my Geth Assault Rifle to do any noticeable damage i just a vivid dream, it's never gonna happen unless they overhaul their system. As I said earlier the aqquiring weapons could be random, but upgrading them simply costs credits and nothing else. Or as you said upgrading them through use would be fantastic.
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  17. Post #22737
    Gold Member
    Janus Vesta's Avatar
    May 2007
    12,570 Posts
    Key word: Unnaturally. Unnatural = Artificial. It's that simple.

    Edited:



    Due to centuries of selective breeding, one could argue this way.
    Same for cows, pigs, sheep etc. I consider these "Artificial" species due to the fact that we've altered their evolutionary course.
    Altered their evolutionary course? From what? Evolution isn't a course, it's not a road with an end, evolution is just adaptation through random mutation. Again, you're projecting your own opinion.
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  18. Post #22738
    "some of those dragon dildo designs are pretty cool"
    EcksDee's Avatar
    February 2007
    9,303 Posts
    Exactly, it was created, introduced to his natural body, it's an artificial addition to an otherwise natural body.
    Yes, it's a synthetic implant in a natural body that makes the red beam of boom boom affect it. There is a reason why the red beam of boom boom destroys synthetic life and leaves the ORGANIC life alive.
    When the Catalyst, or heck, when the entire Mass Effect series say synthetic, they SPECIFICALLY mean AI, robots, technological beings created from scratch by organic beings. There is no ambiguity.

    Sure, in the real world you can argue semantics like this, but there is no arguing in the Mass Effect universe, synthetics are synthetics, and organics are organics.
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  19. Post #22739
    Gold Member
    Darth_GW7's Avatar
    March 2008
    7,680 Posts
    It annoys me how abilities scales with level, and nothing more than that, while weapons scale with level, mods and rank. As for getting to level 20 on a character is rather easy, it doesn't take even nearly as long as it takes to even get all the guns you want to use on a specific char, and then to rank them up... It's impossible to get any geth gun to rank X, hell I just recently got my geth plasma shotgun and I've played this game since it was released, several hours a day. Getting a Javelin or upgrading my Geth Assault Rifle to do any noticeable damage i just a vivid dream, it's never gonna happen unless they overhaul their system. As I said earlier the aqquiring weapons could be random, but upgrading them simply costs credits and nothing else. Or as you said upgrading them through use would be fantastic.
    Maybe they could introduce "Weapon Packs" that are guaranteed to contain 1/2 weapons and nothing else.
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  20. Post #22740
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    March 2006
    3,377 Posts
    So at the part in the ending where Shepard    Lives, what part of his body are we seeing when he gasps?   
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  21. Post #22741
    "some of those dragon dildo designs are pretty cool"
    EcksDee's Avatar
    February 2007
    9,303 Posts
    Key word: Unnaturally. Unnatural = Artificial. It's that simple.

    Edited:



    Due to centuries of selective breeding, one could argue this way.
    Same for cows, pigs, sheep etc. I consider these "Artificial" species due to the fact that we've altered their evolutionary course.
    Yes, and I don't see Humans in Mass Effect 3 actively trying to destroy the species already present in the galactic community.

    Also you consider cows artificial species? what.

    Edited:

    So at the part in the ending where Shepard    Lives, what part of his body are we seeing when he gasps?   
    I would presume the chest.
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  22. Post #22742
    Gold Member
    Darth_GW7's Avatar
    March 2008
    7,680 Posts
    Altered their evolutionary course? From what? Evolution isn't a course, it's not a road with an end, evolution is just adaptation through random mutation. Again, you're projecting your own opinion.
    Left to their own devices, dogs would have evolved to be very different from how they are at the moment.
    We selectively bred them, which is an artificial form of evolution. It's still evolution, of course, but I wouldn't consider them "Natural" species compared to wild animals.
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  23. Post #22743
    Remove anime
    jiggu's Avatar
    July 2007
    9,873 Posts
    Maybe they could introduce "Weapon Packs" that are guaranteed to contain 1/2 weapons and nothing else.
    That would make me cream my underwear.
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  24. Post #22744
    What fun is there in making sense?
    Dennab
    October 2007
    9,274 Posts
    I just like the fact that you finally start seeing or hearing about people from the books.
    Except for the ONE super biotic girl from the second book. Never any mention of her.
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  25. Post #22745
    Gold Member
    Darth_GW7's Avatar
    March 2008
    7,680 Posts
    Also you consider cows artificial species? what.
    Can you imagine cows surviving long in the wild?
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  26. Post #22746
    Gold Member
    benzi2k7's Avatar
    July 2007
    7,793 Posts
    Key word: Unnaturally. Unnatural = Artificial. It's that simple.

    Edited:



    Due to centuries of selective breeding, one could argue this way.
    Same for cows, pigs, sheep etc. I consider these "Artificial" species due to the fact that we've altered their evolutionary course.
    Dude.. we're animals. We are part of nature, anything we do is part of nature and part of our evolutionary course, it's just a different form of natural selection. There's nothing artificial about it.

    http://www.csmonitor.com/Science/201...etic-life-form this is the only artificial life we have created, key word created. We steered dogs to be our perfect companions using natural methods, we naturally (being part of nature) selected aspects we wanted and bred them. We didn't do anything unnatural that nature (which we are part of) doesn't do itself.
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  27. Post #22747
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    March 2006
    3,377 Posts
    I would presume the chest.
    Thats what I thought, but the armor had the arm parts destroyed, so surely you would see his skin, unless it's completely burnt, but then how would he be alive?
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  28. Post #22748
    Quite so, ol' chap.
    Dominicus's Avatar
    December 2011
    4,040 Posts
    So at the part in the ending where Shepard    Lives, what part of his body are we seeing when he gasps?   
    Unless he hangs his dogtags from his tights, I'd have to go with "chest".
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  29. Post #22749
    Gold Member
    Janus Vesta's Avatar
    May 2007
    12,570 Posts
    Left to their own devices, dogs would have evolved to be very different from how they are at the moment.
    We selectively bred them, which is an artificial form of evolution. It's still evolution, of course, but I wouldn't consider them "Natural" species compared to wild animals.
    Yeah, but that's your opinion on real world evolution. When the game talks about organics and sythetics it is specifically talking about organic species and robots like EDI and the Geth.
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  30. Post #22750
    "some of those dragon dildo designs are pretty cool"
    EcksDee's Avatar
    February 2007
    9,303 Posts
    Left to their own devices, dogs would have evolved to be very different from how they are at the moment.
    We selectively bred them, which is an artificial form of evolution. It's still evolution, of course, but I wouldn't consider them "Natural" species compared to wild animals.
    It's still all natural. Having something change the way you evolve doesn't make your evolution artificial. That's just how evolution works, the ones that are least suited to their environment(Be that climate, terrain or human dislikes) will die out. The ones that best fit their environment will survive.

    Our breeding of cows and chicken doesn't make them artificial species, nor does it make their evolution artificial.
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  31. Post #22751
    Gold Member
    Darth_GW7's Avatar
    March 2008
    7,680 Posts
    Dude.. we're animals. We are part of nature, anything we do is part of nature and part of our evolutionary course, it's just a different form of natural selection. There's nothing artificial about it.

    http://www.csmonitor.com/Science/201...etic-life-form this is the only artificial life we have created, key word created. We steered dogs to be our perfect companions using natural methods, we naturally (being part of nature) selected aspects we wanted and bred them. We didn't do anything unnatural that nature (which we are part of) doesn't do itself.
    Exactly, the key word is that we "Steered" dogs to be our perfect companions. We directed them to a specific destination, which is not how natural evolution works. Natural evolution has no destination, just a lot of branches and dead ends.
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  32. Post #22752
    "some of those dragon dildo designs are pretty cool"
    EcksDee's Avatar
    February 2007
    9,303 Posts
    Yeah, but that's your opinion on real world evolution. When the game talks about organics and sythetics it is specifically talking about organic species and robots like EDI and the Geth.
    And in the end we revert back to this. While you might have a point in the real world about artificial species, the game is never ambiguous.
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  33. Post #22753
    Gold Member
    Janus Vesta's Avatar
    May 2007
    12,570 Posts
    Can you imagine cows surviving long in the wild?
    They were called Aurochs, they died out n 1627. Domesticated catle descend directly from them. Also bison and buffalo are wild cows.
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  34. Post #22754
    "some of those dragon dildo designs are pretty cool"
    EcksDee's Avatar
    February 2007
    9,303 Posts
    Exactly, the key word is that we "Steered" dogs to be our perfect companions. We directed them to a specific destination, which is not how natural evolution works. Natural evolution has no destination, just a lot of branches and dead ends.
    Using natural methods, with natural motivations. You can't parallel our bred species and the technologically uplifted species in the ME universe.

    Our breeding doesn't have a natural destination, what is happening is exactly the same as in nature.
    We want the animals to be as useful to us as possible, and in nature the eventual result is that the animals are as useful to their environment as possible.

    The only difference is timescale, which I wouldn't consider a point.
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  35. Post #22755
    Gold Member
    haloguy234's Avatar
    August 2006
    4,781 Posts
    Chills and goosebumps.
    Thanks.

    Too bad there isn't anything akin to this ingame. I really think my edit is better than what was in the game by default.
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  36. Post #22756
    Gold Member
    benzi2k7's Avatar
    July 2007
    7,793 Posts
    Exactly, the key word is that we "Steered" dogs to be our perfect companions. We directed them to a specific destination, which is not how natural evolution works. Natural evolution has no destination, just a lot of branches and dead ends.
    Yes it is! We're part of nature! What we're doing is a different form of natural selection, it's not just one thing. We're just making directional selection (one of the "modes" of natural selection) work to our benefit, in this case "if certain wolf has these traits they will survive better because group of humans will take care of them", we didn't just go kidnap a group of wolves and beat them into submission, wolves that were more timid and less scared of humans came to us first. We didn't use artificial means to make them how they were, we used the natural methods that are already happening to them when they becamse more timid around humans because of the benefits they recieved themsleves (food/safety) and sped them up a bit.
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  37. Post #22757
    Gold Member
    Darth_GW7's Avatar
    March 2008
    7,680 Posts
    They were called Aurochs, they died out n 1627. Domesticated catle descend directly from them. Also bison and buffalo are wild cows.
    I meant cows as they are. The species you refer to may have been natural, but the current equivalent are not. Once we started selectively breeding them, they became artificial.
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  38. Post #22758
    Gold Member
    Janus Vesta's Avatar
    May 2007
    12,570 Posts
    Exactly, the key word is that we "Steered" dogs to be our perfect companions. We directed them to a specific destination, which is not how natural evolution works. Natural evolution has no destination, just a lot of branches and dead ends.
    If there's aspecies of birds which feed off grubs, but the grubs live ddep inside a free, the biiiiird with the longest beak will live the longest and have the most kids. The species will be 'steered' toward having long beaks, those without will die and fail to reproduce. It's no different from what humans do with animals, we just know how to make it happen faster.
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  39. Post #22759
    Remove anime
    jiggu's Avatar
    July 2007
    9,873 Posts
    Exactly, the key word is that we "Steered" dogs to be our perfect companions. We directed them to a specific destination, which is not how natural evolution works. Natural evolution has no destination, just a lot of branches and dead ends.
    Even if you would call it synthetic evolution that doesn't suddenly make the entire race synthetics.

    Edited:

    Can you imagine cows surviving long in the wild?
    Yes.
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  40. Post #22760
    Scar's Avatar
    September 2010
    4,175 Posts
    What the fuck are you guys even talking about
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