[Ordigenius]

thisispain posted:

many musicians have taken that approach and it's brought us to a time where one doesn't need to be amazing at their instrument in order to create amazing music.

true

but isn't true art subjective after all
At this point, what would be amazing?

[thisispain]

hip-hop is a good example for a lot of things.
hip-hop has become so wide-spread because you don't even need to play an instrument just to make which has given a voice to the most unlikely of people.

[child birth]

MaddaCheeb posted:

I don't think we look hard enough, but the rap industry just plain sucks. Now days it's any black-man can rap and all rap is now is singing about bitches and big houses

awesome, racism and sweeping generalizations! there is as much rap music against wealth as there is for wealth. we hear more about the rap music for wealth because, hint hint, it's being promoted by people WITH wealth.

[q0q]

strayebyrd posted:

oh hey look it's a rap song about the folly of the pursuit of consumerism and branding

Macklemore, Atmosphere, and anyone from Rhymesayers/Doomtree are fucking amazing.

Edited:

[Eluveitie]

redBadger posted:

Music in this generation, for the most part, has no logic or actual musicality put into it at all. Let's look at something like this:

Name one contemporary piece that can compare to logic of this.

Everything Bach, and other composers of their generations wrote took time, patience, and logic. Nowadays, musicians can rely on electronics to hide their 'talent' and to create nice beats for them in a few weeks. Everything musicians did in the past was constructed with every brick in the right spot. Granted Bach did have to hand-write all his pieces, but the actual performance base of the music relied on everyone's cooperation to know their part perfectly.

ohh shit man, are you really saying these words?

You do understand that many, many musical artists today compose their songs with the notes and stuff? They have the added advantage of computers to listen to it as they write it.

I'm not really well versed in classical music so I'm going to assume that Bach was a pioneer of music and he pushed new boundaries.

This is Meshuggah, they push boundaries. They pioneer music, they've influenced a whole new generation of musicians.

This is a song from their upcoming album.

Don't say modern music is shit.

[WeekendWarrior]

MaddaCheeb posted:

I don't think we look hard enough, but the rap industry just plain sucks. Now days it's any black-man can rap and all rap is now is singing about bitches and big houses

That is a horrible, horrible generalisation of an entire genre.

[AK'z]

Nibwoddle posted:

Why?

Edited:

Because if it's because you get to see how well some huge black shirted man can wank around on a guitar, that's closer to mathematics than it is art.

There may be a certain thrill to how technical the music is. Don't forget that mathematics can too be an art.

[lil timmy]

hey OP, what's wrong with electronics?

oh yeah, nothing, they're just another tool in the artist's repertoire. I'd say come up with some real reasons why modern music is worse but there actually aren't any - plenty of reasons why it's different to the music you like, to be sure, but there is literally no such thing as an objective fact in the realm of musical taste. Here's an example:

Objectively, Bach composed more technically complex orchestral pieces than, say, Rihanna

Subjectively, you prefer Bach to Rihanna because to you, complex orchestral music sounds good, rather than dance-y pop music, which you do not like.

Technical complexity and complexity of melody or rhythm or anything like that is objective. You can tell it is, it is documented and to a degree, scientific/mathematical.

However, objective qualities don't actually equate to musical taste, and thus, how "good" a piece of music is. Some people infinitely prefer a simple melody with a 4/4 beat that they can dance to - in their minds, a pop song is a very, very good song - that's just the wya people are, we have subjective personal preferences and the sooner you accept this the happier you will be.

[AK'z]

All styles and flavours of music should be respected equally as expressive forms.

Edited:

apart from Teen Pop.

[wauterboi]

I'm personally a sucker for simple melodies and what not. I think the simplest of things can be the most expressive and awesome.

Anyone know The Downward Spiral motif?



Plays through the entire album, The Downward Spiral, and is a representation of the endless spiraling down the "character of the album" is going through. The motif plays it's last time as the main melody in the song "The Downward Spiral" and is ultimately a representation for the end of the spiral with him killing himself. A very simple melody that represents something so much greater than what you might think, Ordigenius.

A painting doesn't need to have the finest acrylics and complex shapes in order to be a beautiful painting. A painting can be simple and still be pretty awesome. Music is the same way.

[AK'z]

sometimes the most simple things in music can make you feel good.

[deaded38]

WeekendWarrior posted:

That is a horrible, horrible generalisation of an entire genre.

Not really. It's what most rap is. Before you ask, I was raised half around rap and half around country. I like the latter better (for obvious reasons), but I can tell you that rap is mostly about hookers, drugs, cribs, gangs, etc. There are exceptions like christian rap. That's the only rap genre I can name off the top of my head that isn't about said things.

[Bobie]

deaded38 posted:

Not really. It's what most rap is. Before you ask, I was raised half around rap and half around country. I like the latter better (for obvious reasons), but I can tell you that rap is mostly about hookers, drugs, cribs, gangs, etc. There are exceptions like christian rap. That's the only rap genre I can name off the top of my head that isn't about said things.

thought id drop this here lol

[Ordigenius]

deaded38 posted:

Not really. It's what most rap is. Before you ask, I was raised half around rap and half around country. I like the latter better (for obvious reasons), but I can tell you that rap is mostly about hookers, drugs, cribs, gangs, etc. There are exceptions like christian rap. That's the only rap genre I can name off the top of my head that isn't about said things.

Hip hop isn't that bad

[DesumThePanda]

deaded38 posted:

Not really. It's what most rap is. Before you ask, I was raised half around rap and half around country. I like the latter better (for obvious reasons), but I can tell you that rap is mostly about hookers, drugs, cribs, gangs, etc. There are exceptions like christian rap. That's the only rap genre I can name off the top of my head that isn't about said things.

Obviously you don't know a lot about rap music.

[thisispain]

deaded38 posted:

Not really. It's what most rap is. Before you ask, I was raised half around rap and half around country. I like the latter better (for obvious reasons), but I can tell you that rap is mostly about hookers, drugs, cribs, gangs, etc. There are exceptions like christian rap. That's the only rap genre I can name off the top of my head that isn't about said things.

you're so full of crap

[strayebyrd]

deaded38 posted:

Not really. It's what most rap is. Before you ask, I was raised half around rap and half around country. I like the latter better (for obvious reasons), but I can tell you that rap is mostly about hookers, drugs, cribs, gangs, etc. There are exceptions like christian rap. That's the only rap genre I can name off the top of my head that isn't about said things.

well then you weren't really raised around any good rap dude

[Eluveitie]

deaded38 posted:

Not really. It's what most rap is. Before you ask, I was raised half around rap and half around country. I like the latter better (for obvious reasons), but I can tell you that rap is mostly about hookers, drugs, cribs, gangs, etc. There are exceptions like christian rap. That's the only rap genre I can name off the top of my head that isn't about said things.

Do you have any idea what you're talking about?

[strayebyrd]

deaded38 posted:

Not really. It's what most rap is. Before you ask, I was raised half around rap and half around country. I like the latter better (for obvious reasons), but I can tell you that rap is mostly about hookers, drugs, cribs, gangs, etc. There are exceptions like christian rap. That's the only rap genre I can name off the top of my head that isn't about said things.

This is just fucking astounding I can't not look at how stupid it is. I mean, even most popular 'mainstream' rap like Kid Cudi, Kanye West and Jay-Z now isn't about that

[MachiniOs]

deaded38 posted:

Not really. It's what most rap is. Before you ask, I was raised half around rap and half around country. I like the latter better (for obvious reasons), but I can tell you that rap is mostly about hookers, drugs, cribs, gangs, etc. There are exceptions like christian rap. That's the only rap genre I can name off the top of my head that isn't about said things.

Uh that whold fad died off in the early 2k. Artists like Das Racist are actually pretty clever if you make an effort to listen to their lyrics.

Edited:

I mean obviously this is all about bitches and ho's.

[AK'z]

What can make hip hop bad, is the lack of charisma. It's not about how many bitches there are that matters at all. There can be a billion bitches in it for all I care.

[deaded38]

DesumThePanda posted:

Obviously you don't know a lot about rap music.

Sorry, but I do. At least I did six years ago. Maybe it has changed since then. That's doubtful, though.

Edited:

MachiniOs posted:

Uh that whold fad died off in the early 2k. Artists like Das Racist are actually pretty clever if you make an effort to listen to their lyrics.

That would explain why the assumption I made is false. If this is true, sorry about that.

Seriously though, what do you expect from somebody who hasn't listened to the genre for quite some time.

[nnoah95]

deaded38 posted:

Sorry, but I do. At least I did six years ago. Maybe it has changed since then. That's doubtful, though.

Edited:


That would explain why the assumption I made is false. If this is true, sorry about that.

Seriously though, what do you expect from somebody who hasn't listened to the genre for quite some time.

From at least 8 years ago:

[thisispain]

deaded38 posted:

Sorry, but I do. At least I did six years ago. Maybe it has changed since then. That's doubtful, though.

thisispain posted:

you're so full of crap

intelligent rappers have been around since the beginning of hip-hop.

[AK'z]

deaded38 posted:

Sorry, but I do. At least I did six years ago. Maybe it has changed since then. That's doubtful, though.

You're an imbecile. End of discussion with you.

You think because you "grew up" in a shithole, that you know everything that there is to know about the hip hop culture.

Have you heard of any of the following: Deltron 3030, Cannibal Ox, Death Grips, Dalek, Madvillain, Madlib, MF DOOM, Shabazz Palaces?

If not, then give up your arguement.

[Bobie]

deaded38 posted:

Sorry, but I do. At least I did six years ago. Maybe it has changed since then. That's doubtful, though.

Edited:


That would explain why the assumption I made is false. If this is true, sorry about that.

Seriously though, what do you expect from somebody who hasn't listened to the genre for quite some time.

'i dont have a clue what im talking about, but believe me man its true!!!"

[MachiniOs]

deaded38 posted:

Sorry, but I do. At least I did six years ago. Maybe it has changed since then. That's doubtful, though.

Edited:


That would explain why the assumption I made is false. If this is true, sorry about that.

Seriously though, what do you expect from somebody who hasn't listened to the genre for quite some time.

Rap, just like any other genre is constantly evolving.

[AK'z]

Hip Hop as a genre seems to be going for the more abstract styles anyway. It's fairly obvious that it won't stay linear like perhaps the genre blues has.

[Bat-shit]

I like music that stimulates my body and sounds good in my ears.

[deaded38]

AK'z posted:

You're an imbecile. End of discussion with you.

You think because you "grew up" in a shithole, that you know everything that there is to know about the hip hop culture.

Have you heard of any of the following: Deltron 3030, Cannibal Ox, Death Grips, Dalek, Madvillain, Madlib, MF DOOM, Shabazz Palaces?

If not, then give up your arguement.

You're a jackass. End of discussion with you. (See, I can do it too.)
I didn't "grow up in a shithole". Where did I say that? My daycare are actually the ones who listened to rap and from what I gathered, a good majority of the genre's songs were in fact about said things. Maybe not exactly those things, but they weren't about anything good.

Edited:

Bobie posted:

'i dont have a clue what im talking about, but believe me man its true!!!"

I don't think you guys know what you're talking about. I already said if it's changed since then, I will disregard my argument. I know SOME rap isn't about things like that, but the majority of it is.

If you guys can't learn to deal with the simple truth that most rap was (or maybe still is) this way, then you guys are the true "imbeciles".

[AK'z]

deaded38 posted:

disregard my argument.

That's something I'd recommend everyone to do.

[deaded38]

AK'z posted:

That's something I'd recommend everyone to do.

Exactly. Because you're wrong.

[Bobie]

deaded38 posted:

Exactly. Because you're wrong.

this is the mass debate section not the mass statement section

[AK'z]

deaded38 posted:

Exactly. Because you're wrong.

Your arguement is: I grew up in a town where hip hop was terrible, therefore the entire genre is about bitches and hoes.

[Mon]

AK'z posted:

my main interest in music is personality/culture. after that it's the feeling and expression, and THEN the sound/composition.

Most people worry so much about the sound it turns the entire enjoyment of music into mathematics.

in my opinion sound is as valuable as expression.
if you have crappy sound/composition, it really doesn't matter how good your expression is - the music just isn't enjoyable to listen to. whereas if you have crappy expression, you really can't take anything away from the music - which really makes it nothing more than an easily forgotten technical showcase

[AK'z]

Mon posted:

in my opinion sound is as valuable as expression.
if you have crappy sound/composition, it really doesn't matter how good your expression is - the music just isn't enjoyable to listen to. whereas if you have crappy expression, you really can't take anything away from what you just listened to - and in a sense, is nothing more than a technical showcase

yeah, I'm realising that people could gain more of a thrill through the technicality of the music.
It's all subjective to the listener's experience.

[deaded38]

AK'z posted:

Your arguement is: I grew up in a town where hip hop was terrible, therefore the entire genre is about bitches and hoes.

Your argument is: hurr no itz not

You should really learn to get your facts straight. Here, let me quote myself:

"I know SOME rap isn't about things like that, but the majority of it is."

There is rap out there that isn't that way. I'm not denying that. And no, I didn't "grow up in a town where hip hop was terrible". I grew up AROUND PEOPLE where rap was terrible. Everybody in my town would probably listen to country pop and/or country.

Long story short, I'm not generalizing the whole genre, just stating the facts which is rap was (or still is) MOSTLY about said things. There are exceptions. Get that through your head and stop putting words in my mouth.

Edited:

Bobie posted:

this is the mass debate section not the mass statement section

Oh... thanks. I didn't realize that.

[AK'z]

"Your argument is: hurr no itz not"
My arguement is saying that you are misguided, and proving it by listing artists which you have NOT heard of. These are a bulk of what is regarded as some of the most creative hip hop of our time

"I grew up AROUND PEOPLE where rap was terrible."
That still doesn't make your arguement worthy, I know people who make terrible rap music too. Doesn't mean to say the style of music is bad in any way because of it. If anything, they're part of the culture that has been built up with personality and charisma over the decades.

"Long story short, I'm not generalizing the whole genre, just stating the facts which is rap was (or still is) MOSTLY about said things. "
And how is that not generalising?

[Eluveitie]

deaded38 posted:

Exactly. Because you're wrong.

Can you stop being stupid and open your eyes?

In no way is the majority of rap JUST about bitches and money and guns.

No-one cares if you grew up around it, that usually always means fuck all. You probably just have a dislike of rap because of that and you're justifying it with retarded reasoning.

[Mon]

deaded38 posted:

Your argument is: hurr no itz not

You should really learn to get your facts straight. Here, let me quote myself:

"I know SOME rap isn't about things like that, but the majority of it is."

There is rap out there that isn't that way. I'm not denying that. And no, I didn't "grow up in a town where hip hop was terrible". I grew up AROUND PEOPLE where rap was terrible. Everybody in my town would probably listen to country pop and/or country.

Long story short, I'm not generalizing the whole genre, just stating the facts which is rap was (or still is) MOSTLY about said things. There are exceptions. Get that through your head and stop putting words in my mouth.

Edited:



Oh... thanks. I didn't realize that.

don't post here if you aren't willing to listen