1. Post #241
    dagoth_ur's Avatar
    November 2009
    1,814 Posts
    I don't mind the death penalty, it's a strong detterant where it's legal( not in ireland). but I think Life in prision is far worse, Worse than that again would be life in a padded cell, that I htink can end up being a FAR worse punishment...

  2. Post #242
    Gold Member
    Run&Gun12's Avatar
    May 2007
    3,380 Posts
    It does make you bad as the murderers, most murderers thinks his/her killing were morally justified. A person who insists on killing a murderer for "justice" (even though they weren't personally affected by it) isn't really any different.

    I would agree with you if every murderer was like Andrew Brevik, but most of them aren't.
    Alright, what about Ted Bundy? It was undeniable he killed all those people. Do you think his death was justified?

    Just to clear things up, I only support the death penalty in only the most extreme cases. Its not something to throw around, but rather tuck away until one of those extreme cases arise.

  3. Post #243
    XxTheAvengerxX's Avatar
    January 2011
    301 Posts
    It seems the most used argument is that "If you kill a murderer all you are doing is stooping to their level." The death penalty is (or should be) just removing them from society permanently so they can't cause harm to the general public once more.

    Yeah, prison's prime focus should be to rehabilitate and yeah our prison's suck dick and yeah we suck at rehab, but honestly the prison system should be our main concern, not the death penalty.

    The death penalty should be used in absolutely extreme cases only as to when the criminal cannot under any circumstances be rehabilitated.

    I am quite mixed myself on the death penalty and do not like its current state but please, for the love of god, stop using that spiritual yin-yang argument.
    How about a logical argument?

    One of our rights, as guaranteed by the US government, is the right to life. The purpose of rights is that they cannot be taken away by anyone under any circumstances.

    I'll leave you to figure the rest out.

  4. Post #244
    Gold Member
    Michaeldf's Avatar
    February 2007
    344 Posts
    What about Breivik?

  5. Post #245
    Goodthief's Avatar
    December 2009
    5,967 Posts
    I don't support the death sentence for one reason. If I were to say that any death of an innocent man would be worthy of a death sentence then even if one innocent man were to die by lethal injection, hanging or whatever it may be then I too deserve to be put to death for supporting the very system and idea that ended his life

  6. Post #246
    We're made of star-stuff
    LarparNar's Avatar
    February 2009
    10,250 Posts
    What about Breivik?
    What about him?

  7. Post #247
    Gold Member
    Ond kaja's Avatar
    December 2009
    2,957 Posts
    What about Breivik?
    Well, he probably gets to spend the rest of his life behind bars.

  8. Post #248
    Gold Member
    JDK721's Avatar
    July 2006
    7,982 Posts
    No such thing as degrees in UK definition of murder and your the one who started relaying the degrees of murder in the US because everything evolves around the US in your mind.
    terrible assumption

    quit posting unless you're going to bring up a valid point regarding capital punishment

  9. Post #249
    Goodthief's Avatar
    December 2009
    5,967 Posts
    I don't mind the death penalty, it's a strong detterant where it's legal( not in ireland). but I think Life in prision is far worse, Worse than that again would be life in a padded cell, that I htink can end up being a FAR worse punishment...
    It's not a strong deterrent because people kill in 3 ways.

    Acts of passion for example when you see your wife in bed with another man it will tear you up so much that you will kill him as a reflex and therefore would not be thinking of the consequences.

    Acts of self defense when attacked people fight back and often kill the assailant. I doubt that under all that adrenalin you will be thinking about being put to death

    and finally acts of mental instability, people like psychopaths and sociopaths think that killing is normal like taking a cookie from the cookie jar when your parents aren't around. Therefore, when they do kill they will be thinking that it's such a minor of offense that nothing will happen to them.

    Moreover, when people commit a crime they don't think that the will be caught so even if he plans a killing he won't be thinking of the possibility of getting caught because in his mind he wont.

    Also saying that killing one man will stop the others is a far fetched statement because as Christianity demonstrated killing a member of their religion only empowered others to overthrow the "non-believers"

  10. Post #250
    Der Ubermensch's Avatar
    December 2009
    462 Posts
    I'd say Pro-Death Sentence in ONLY the case that the death is appropriate, as in the charges are SOLID and the evidence is there. And in this case, only for SEVERE crimes, such as Mass Murder, Manslaughter or even Rape.

  11. Post #251
    Goodthief's Avatar
    December 2009
    5,967 Posts
    I'd say Pro-Death Sentence in ONLY the case that the death is appropriate, as in the charges are SOLID and the evidence is there. And in this case, only for SEVERE crimes, such as Mass Murder, Manslaughter or even Rape.
    even if he were to commit those crimes we have no right to decide the length of his life. The only humane punishment is a life sentence

  12. Post #252
    SomTervo's Avatar
    October 2010
    587 Posts
    Death Penalty should be kept only for people who have been proven to be impossible to rehabilitate and extremely dangerous to his fellow inmates. If some prisoner kills like three of his inmates, he should be killed not for revenge but for the safety of everyone locked up with him. Other then that, it shouldn't be used, under any circumstances, ever.

  13. Post #253
    dagoth_ur's Avatar
    November 2009
    1,814 Posts
    It's not a strong deterrent because people kill in 3 ways.

    Acts of passion for example when you see your wife in bed with another man it will tear you up so much that you will kill him as a reflex and therefore would not be thinking of the consequences.

    Acts of self defense when attacked people fight back and often kill the assailant. I doubt that under all that adrenalin you will be thinking about being put to death

    and finally acts of mental instability, people like psychopaths and sociopaths think that killing is normal like taking a cookie from the cookie jar when your parents aren't around. Therefore, when they do kill they will be thinking that it's such a minor of offense that nothing will happen to them.

    Moreover, when people commit a crime they don't think that the will be caught so even if he plans a killing he won't be thinking of the possibility of getting caught because in his mind he wont.

    Also saying that killing one man will stop the others is a far fetched statement because as Christianity demonstrated killing a member of their religion only empowered others to overthrow the "non-believers"
    While I agree, my point wasn't that Killing one man will stop another from killing, it [i]might make the odd few in rare circumstances think twice before commiting murder or any such sentence, just might, but as I said, Life can be a far worse punishment than death...

  14. Post #254
    Gekkosan's Avatar
    October 2010
    5,668 Posts
    The only humane punishment is a life sentence
    Implying that separating a man from his life, family and friends with a locked cage is humane.

  15. Post #255
    FUCK OFF garry, I am a goddamn proud swedish moose, not a fucking british heathen!
    Sokrates's Avatar
    July 2010
    3,226 Posts
    As I heard from a great game once, "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - MW2

  16. Post #256
    Gold Member
    Eltro102's Avatar
    February 2008
    11,165 Posts
    Take a leaf out of the French Revolution and use the cost effective guillotine, instead of injecting them with expensive drugs.

  17. Post #257
    Goodthief's Avatar
    December 2009
    5,967 Posts
    Implying that separating a man from his life, family and friends with a locked cage is humane.
    more humane then killing him because at least his family can visit him and he can see his children grow. Also if he does turn out to be innocent it won't be too late to turn his life back around.

  18. Post #258
    Gold Member
    JDK721's Avatar
    July 2006
    7,982 Posts
    just read it, and I see plenty of issues

    I'll refute them later today when I have more time

  19. Post #259
    Gold Member
    Ond kaja's Avatar
    December 2009
    2,957 Posts
    As I heard from a great game once, "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - MW2
    Wait, MW2 used a quote from Ghandi? No wonder why I'm being rated dumb whenever I use that quote.

  20. Post #260
    Gekkosan's Avatar
    October 2010
    5,668 Posts
    more humane then killing him because at least his family can visit him and he can see his children grow.
    That is exactly the reason why some lifetime prisoners don't want to see their children no more. Or that they want to say good bye to them and have the kids and their mother go on about their lives.

    But of course it's not always like that, but with younger children bringing them into a prison must be a nuisance.

    And I'm not really in favor for the death penalty although I'm baffled at the cruelties people do. I wouldn't care what they do to the wank jobs who care so little of random people's lives that they just senselessly murder em.

  21. Post #261
    My favorite NSA triggers are small pox cyber terror brown out
    Birdman101's Avatar
    November 2009
    7,430 Posts
    I think it should stay in effect, but the whole injection system costs waaaaay too much. Just give them their final meal, ask them about their last words, then take them out back to the firing squad.

  22. Post #262
    MEGA SENPAI KAWAII UGUU~~ =^_^=
    Megafan's Avatar
    September 2008
    14,608 Posts
    I think it should stay in effect, but the whole injection system costs waaaaay too much. Just give them their final meal, ask them about their last words, then take them out back to the firing squad.
    And who are you going to get to fire at the criminal?

  23. Post #263
    Gold Member
    strayebyrd's Avatar
    July 2008
    7,760 Posts
    And who are you going to get to fire at the criminal?
    yeah I mean a lot of people who administer lethal injection have a hard time doing so, I'd hate to see the sort of shit that people firing on unarmed men would go through.

  24. Post #264
    dooboo2's Avatar
    January 2010
    83 Posts
    With friends like you guys I could murder 12 people and only get a month in jail

    But in seriousness, execution is doing them a favor.
    It's an easy way out of a possibly entire life confined in a concrete jail cell, not knowing if some guy is going to stab you to death today or tomorrow.
    Not sure about you, but I'd rather die a quick 5 minute death rather than a 40 year death.

  25. Post #265
    MEGA SENPAI KAWAII UGUU~~ =^_^=
    Megafan's Avatar
    September 2008
    14,608 Posts
    With friends like you guys I could murder 12 people and only get a month in jail
    Wow, it's almost like you have no idea what we're actually advocating.

  26. Post #266
    Gekkosan's Avatar
    October 2010
    5,668 Posts
    Not sure about you, but I'd rather die a quick 5 minute death rather than a 40 year death.
    Nah I don't know.. It would be prison life, a very different kinda life but I'd take it over the death sentence if I was down for a murder or something.

    Pft fucking "easy way out" You either go down for good or you just don't, not until you do.

  27. Post #267
    BlueMastermind's Avatar
    June 2011
    35 Posts
    The death sentence is an easy answer for murder trials, which is almost why I think it has that attractive luster; but that's still no justification for killing prisoners.

  28. Post #268
    Gold Member
    Eltro102's Avatar
    February 2008
    11,165 Posts
    And who are you going to get to fire at the criminal?
    Robots.

    Or a guillotine

  29. Post #269
    Gold Member
    Cone's Avatar
    August 2011
    19,150 Posts
    Robots.

    Or a guillotine
    And who will program the robots and drop the blade?

    Everything we do, we do ourselves.

  30. Post #270
    Gold Member
    Deathbane's Avatar
    August 2005
    269 Posts
    Id happily program it if it meant removing a repeat paedophile child killer from this world.

    You know, the people who you cant rehabilitate and theres been research proving that fact.

    Some people cant be rehabilitated. To pull the wool over your own eyes and to believe everyone is capable of being fixed is a dangerous and ignorant assumption. If i was here saying we should rehabilitate all gays, you d be rating me ultra dumb ratings. Its the same with some cold blooded murderers. You cant cure people of being 'gay', you cant cure people of being 'murderers'. That is just who the person is.

    He or she will just murder again, and the lives of those victims will be on the hands of people like the majority of FP who believe the worlds a rose garden. Some people are broken from birth, and theres nothing you can do to fix them. Nobody is the same or equal.

  31. Post #271
    Gold Member
    strayebyrd's Avatar
    July 2008
    7,760 Posts
    Id happily program it if it meant removing a repeat paedophile child killer from this world.

    You know, the people who you cant rehabilitate and theres been research proving that fact.

    Some people cant be rehabilitated. To pull the wool over your own eyes and to believe everyone is capable of being fixed is a dangerous and ignorant assumption.

    The entire process needs streamlining and made simpler, swifter and more efficient. That a serial murdering rapist, well beyond the point of being human anymore. is allowed out within ten years of being sentenced i find fucking ridiculous.

    He'll just murder again, and the lives of those victims will be on the hands of people like the majority of FP who believe the worlds a rose garden. Some people are broken from birth, and theres nothing you can do to fix them.
    which is why you have life imprisonment

  32. Post #272
    Gold Member
    Deathbane's Avatar
    August 2005
    269 Posts
    which is why you have life imprisonment
    They voided their right to live when they became something sub human and allowed their inner urges to cause them to kill, maim, butcher and rape.

    A quick taking round the back and a bullet at close range would save the taxpayer millions, and is what they deserve for their crimes against humanity.

  33. Post #273

    February 2009
    467 Posts
    How about a logical argument?

    One of our rights, as guaranteed by the US government, is the right to life. The purpose of rights is that they cannot be taken away by anyone under any circumstances.

    I'll leave you to figure the rest out.
    elastic clause and implied powers?

  34. Post #274
    Gold Member
    Deathbane's Avatar
    August 2005
    269 Posts
    Also give me a reason why i should continue to fund their existence on this earth? Get rid of them, cut my taxes, and I can do more with my own well earned resources rather than spending it on keeping them alive.

  35. Post #275
    Gold Member
    strayebyrd's Avatar
    July 2008
    7,760 Posts
    They voided their right to live when they became something sub human and allowed their inner urges to cause them to kill, maim, butcher and rape.

    A quick taking round the back and a bullet at close range would save the taxpayer millions, and is what they deserve for their crimes against humanity.
    That might be fine for backwater countries, but every man woman and child in America is endowed with certain unalienable rights, which include life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Unalienable means it can't be taken away from you, regardless of what you've done. And besides, a lot of serial killers do so because of untreated and criminal mental illness, meaning an asylum for the criminally insane is the only real fair course of action. Plus life imprisonment is cheaper than the death sentence because of the concept of absolute proof. Unless there is 99.99% proof that said person committed the crime they are accused of, it's considered wrong to serve them the death sentence. The majority of money spent on death sentences isn't the method of execution, it's the investigations and the appeals which need to be rigorous thorough and repeated.

    Edited:

    Also give me a reason why i should continue to fund their existence on this earth? Get rid of them, cut my taxes, and I can do more with my own well earned resources rather than spending it on keeping them alive.
    once again, death sentence is more expensive than life sentence

  36. Post #276
    Gold Member
    Craigewan's Avatar
    October 2005
    4,021 Posts
    By that logic, if you kill someone who wants to kill you in self defense, you're a murderer. In fact, every soldier who's ever fought for his country is, too.
    Yeah, I have to say, going by this line of reason there is no difference between execution and killing in self defence.

    In fact, why not just view execution as post-humous self-defence by the victim?

  37. Post #277
    The Kakistocrat's Avatar
    November 2011
    1,353 Posts
    In fact, why not just view execution as post-humous self-defence by the victim?
    because the whole point of self-defense is to DEFEND your life. If you are dead, it can not be defended.

  38. Post #278
    Swaggon owner
    Animosus's Avatar
    August 2011
    4,909 Posts
    One of my favouright saying is dont get mad, get even, so should the family of the victim be able to take, as they please from the offender, then if the person is proven wrong, give it back, then take from the correct person?

  39. Post #279
    hi there
    Dennab
    September 2011
    5,898 Posts
    "Kill and get killed" seems pretty balanced to me.

  40. Post #280
    Ottomann's Avatar
    March 2010
    84 Posts
    Against.

    I would rather 10 positively guilty men face life imprisonment that one innocent man face execution.

    I believe the margin of error is to great.